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Thread: Shamrock Cycles

  1. #21
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    Default Re: Shamrock Cycles

    Quote Originally Posted by edoz View Post
    I love your work, the bikes you had in Richmond were amazing.
    You do lugs and fillets both very well. Do you have preferred joinery method, and does/did one come easier than the other?
    I also think its awesome how you call your off white "Irish Suntan"
    Thanks for the complement. I am somewhat agnostic on lugs vs. fillet. Both offer their benefits and downsides. I find that if I have a long succession of builds in fillet or lugged I start to miss the type I am not building. If I have to build several fillet brazed in a row I start to think I like lugged better. Vice versa. I think that reinforces the idea that I don't have a preference.

    Anyone who has seen my legs in the high of summer can attest to the fact that tan is not in my vocabulary. Damn you all of Mediterranean descent with your ability to tan. A pox on your house.
    Tim O'Donnell- Shamrock Cycles
    www.lugoftheirish.com

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Shamrock Cycles

    Tim, I had a blast hanging with you guys in Richmond! What I remember at least...

    What has been the best part of team sponsorship for you? the hardest? and where does your level of sponsorship start and end?

    If you could do it all over what's one thing you would change?

    Cheers,
    Baltimore Bicycle Works

    FLICKR

    Natty Boh and Lonestar Enthusiast

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Shamrock Cycles

    Sniped for clarity
    Quote Originally Posted by hmbatrail View Post
    Andy,
    What I do is make sure my customers are appreciated. I make sure that I provide them all the contact and special service to make sure they NEVER regret sending me a deposit.
    a good attitude say I
    Cheers Dazza
    The rock star is dying. And it's a small tragedy. Rock stars have blogs now. I have no use for that kind of rock star.
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  4. #24
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    Default Re: Shamrock Cycles

    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy Nash View Post
    Tim, I had a blast hanging with you guys in Richmond! What I remember at least...

    What has been the best part of team sponsorship for you? the hardest? and where does your level of sponsorship start and end?

    If you could do it all over what's one thing you would change?

    Cheers,
    Man, that night was a little foggy. But for sure I had a good time hanging out with you and talking shop. Thank you for making me feel welcome Tommy. I genuinely appreciate it. I am still a relatively new addition to the NAHBS world so it was a good time hanging out with many of the builders.

    The best part of sponsoring a team is racing with them and seeing my bikes in action. It may sound silly but seeing my racers beat the shit out of those bikes and see the bikes respond makes me feel proud.

    The one thing I wish I would have done differently on the team is I wish I had a team manager. I just want to build the bikes. Handling the desires of six racers is kind of tough. Having someone handle that aspect would be a welcome addition.
    Tim O'Donnell- Shamrock Cycles
    www.lugoftheirish.com

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Shamrock Cycles

    Quote Originally Posted by hmbatrail View Post
    The one thing I wish I would have done differently on the team is I wish I had a team manager.
    My vote would be either Griff or Gato. They would both do well at the position

    Hey Tim,
    You’re bikes are getting a lot of looks and favorable comments at local road, cross and mt. bike races, so what do you see as the prognosis for steel bikes at the amateur level? Have you seen people coming around to idea that sometimes the latest isn’t necessarily the greatest, and that Fe3C can still be just as competitive as the latest carbon wϋnderbike? Do you see groups like “Men of Steel” and the “Men of Steel Race Series” as a positive sign?
    "I think I know what military fame is; to be killed on the field of battle and have your name misspelled in the newspapers."

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Shamrock Cycles

    Quote Originally Posted by dcpdpayne View Post
    My vote would be either Griff or Gato. They would both do well at the position

    Hey Tim,
    You’re bikes are getting a lot of looks and favorable comments at local road, cross and mt. bike races, so what do you see as the prognosis for steel bikes at the amateur level? Have you seen people coming around to idea that sometimes the latest isn’t necessarily the greatest, and that Fe3C can still be just as competitive as the latest carbon wϋnderbike? Do you see groups like “Men of Steel” and the “Men of Steel Race Series” as a positive sign?
    I never really thought about it. I am not trying to change the world by building with steel. I'm not a zealot, I just like working with steel. The Men of Steel series I think is great because it revives older race bikes that have been hanging in a garage for years and put them back into service. It' just great having a crit where you need a steel bike to compete.

    It forces you to re-consider what is commonly accepted as a "race" bike. Show up and race and it is a race bike (someone smarter than me said that once).
    Tim O'Donnell- Shamrock Cycles
    www.lugoftheirish.com

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Shamrock Cycles

    Do you find that you have certain hot spots around the country where sales are strong and some places where they are not?

    dave
    D. Kirk
    Kirk Frameworks Co.
    www.kirkframeworks.com


  8. #28
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    Default Re: Shamrock Cycles

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Kirk View Post
    Do you find that you have certain hot spots around the country where sales are strong and some places where they are not?

    dave
    I seem to have the greatest amount of success from folks here in the Midwest, which makes sense. I also get a lot of interest in the Georgia/ South Carolina/ North Carolina area, which is a little harder to explain. Some of this from referrals. I am not at a saturation point anywhere in the US.

    While not surprising, I haven't gotten many emails or phone calls from folks in the Pacific Northwest. I attribute this to the fact that they have so many talented builders in their area that they can tap.

    Haven't fielded many phone calls from folks in the Bozeman Zip code looking for frames either. Wonder why that is?

    BTW, I was in your fair city a couple months back. Great little town. Spent a little bit of time pestering Carl and Loretta.
    Tim O'Donnell- Shamrock Cycles
    www.lugoftheirish.com

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Shamrock Cycles

    Quote Originally Posted by hmbatrail View Post
    I seem to have the greatest amount of success from folks here in the Midwest, which makes sense. I also get a lot of interest in the Georgia/ South Carolina/ North Carolina area, which is a little harder to explain. Some of this from referrals. I am not at a saturation point anywhere in the US.

    While not surprising, I haven't gotten many emails or phone calls from folks in the Pacific Northwest. I attribute this to the fact that they have so many talented builders in their area that they can tap.

    Haven't fielded many phone calls from folks in the Bozeman Zip code looking for frames either. Wonder why that is?

    BTW, I was in your fair city a couple months back. Great little town. Spent a little bit of time pestering Carl and Loretta.
    Dude! You should have called............ we could have made Carl buy us dinner!

    dave
    D. Kirk
    Kirk Frameworks Co.
    www.kirkframeworks.com


  10. #30
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    Default Re: Shamrock Cycles

    I was in and out. I dropped the missus and friends off at a bar and I stopped by for about an hour or so before we headed off to Big Sky.

    Next time?
    Tim O'Donnell- Shamrock Cycles
    www.lugoftheirish.com

  11. #31
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    Default Re: Shamrock Cycles

    Quote Originally Posted by hmbatrail View Post
    I was in and out. I dropped the missus and friends off at a bar and I stopped by for about an hour or so before we headed off to Big Sky.

    Next time?
    You ski at Big Sky? Nice hill eh?

    next time for sure. Come to Bridger and I'll give you the locals tour. I worked there for years and know every nook and cranny.

    dave
    D. Kirk
    Kirk Frameworks Co.
    www.kirkframeworks.com


  12. #32
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    Default Re: Shamrock Cycles

    Tim,

    Great story, thanks for sharing.

    It sounds as though your father really instilled in you the vocational/shop skills required to get you in a position to work with your hands. Was this process at all formalized? By this I mean, was there a series of projects that he helped lead you through with each successive project adding skills or tools to the mix? Or was it more; "well today son, we're fixing the X" and that would be that lesson.

    I guess I'm jealous, my Dad, while well intentioned was awful with tools and fixing things. Once he replaced the switch/rheostat in the stove and it worked completely backwards after he was done. Same thing with the hot and cold water in the shower. Hot was cold and vice versa. Friends and family that stayed with us often got a rude awakening the first time in the shower.

    You also mentioned college and furniture making. Did you finish college/get a degree or did the desire to be "doing stuff" pull you out of that?

    Thanks,

    Conor

  13. #33
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    Default Re: Shamrock Cycles

    Quote Originally Posted by conorb View Post
    Tim,

    Great story, thanks for sharing.

    It sounds as though your father really instilled in you the vocational/shop skills required to get you in a position to work with your hands. Was this process at all formalized? By this I mean, was there a series of projects that he helped lead you through with each successive project adding skills or tools to the mix? Or was it more; "well today son, we're fixing the X" and that would be that lesson.

    I guess I'm jealous, my Dad, while well intentioned was awful with tools and fixing things. Once he replaced the switch/rheostat in the stove and it worked completely backwards after he was done. Same thing with the hot and cold water in the shower. Hot was cold and vice versa. Friends and family that stayed with us often got a rude awakening the first time in the shower.

    You also mentioned college and furniture making. Did you finish college/get a degree or did the desire to be "doing stuff" pull you out of that?

    Thanks,

    Conor
    Conor,
    My dad, through his years, took on several apprentices in the pipe fitting trade so he was always "teaching" to some degree on the job. Thankfully that trait continued when he would work with me. But the teaching was different. With an apprentice he was teaching the skills necessary to be a journeyman pipefitter. With me I think dad was teaching life lessons. He used to say, "you can use your brain or your back. One is a hell of a lot easier than the other." But you also need to understand, a lot of the time we were building the family houses (from 1987 to 1992 dad built or restored three homes. The old man constantly needed something to stay occupied so once we would complete one house he would start cooking up reasons why we needed to build another) so he recognized that I needed to know what the hell I was doing or he was going to have to come back and fix it. I remember a time when I was just going through and attaching cover plates to all of the receptacles. I noticed the old man staring over my shoulder and said, "a Union man would make sure the screw slots were perfectly north/south" and then walked away. He left it to me to decide if it was worth going back through and adjusting every screw in the house. It was if for no other reason than to make sure he knew I took the lesson to heart.

    In a nutshell, he taught me the basics and pride in a job well done. He then left it to me to decide what to do with it.

    Yes, I finished college with plans of continuing on in education. I was History and Political Science. Life intervenes in these decisions and I found myself heading down another path. In college I worked in a cabinet shop in the summers and realized it was miserable, mind-numbing, tedious, unrewarding work. But it also taught me more of what I wanted to know. I also worked for an antique auctioneer all through college and learned to respect the unbelievable craftsmanship that went into making a truly usable piece of art. What was so amazing about many of those pieces of furniture is that it would have NEVER occurred to the builder that the piece he was working on would someday be worth thousands of dollars. It was function. It was something that served a purpose. You have sugar and you need a place to store that sugar. Or, you have to sleep somewhere at night so you need a bed. The time spent on beautiful joints that no one would ever see is absolutely humbling. I really can't stress this enough. This craftsman would spend countless hours making a joint abso-fucking-lutely perfect, knowing all the while that he would be the only person that would likely ever see it let alone respect the effort it took. The engineering in a Windsor chair for example. The greater the weight on the chair the stronger the joints get.

    Quite frankly, that is a trait that all of us can apply in our every day lives. Take pride in the work itself. The other shit will take care of itself.

    Sorry if I am being hyperbolic or sappy but you asked.
    Tim O'Donnell- Shamrock Cycles
    www.lugoftheirish.com

  14. #34
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    Default Re: Shamrock Cycles

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Kirk View Post
    You ski at Big Sky? Nice hill eh?

    next time for sure. Come to Bridger and I'll give you the locals tour. I worked there for years and know every nook and cranny.

    dave
    A bumped out Liberty Bowl and a full day over on Challenger made me yearn for the groomers. No real powder to speak of but there was no one there (although we were there for Dirtbag) so the skiing was still outta site. We spent half a day over on the Lone Moose chair and we were literally the only people on the mountain.

    Anyone who skis there will become spoiled very quickly.
    Tim O'Donnell- Shamrock Cycles
    www.lugoftheirish.com

  15. #35
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    Default Re: Shamrock Cycles

    Quote Originally Posted by hmbatrail View Post
    Conor,
    My dad, through his years, took on several apprentices in the pipe fitting trade so he was always "teaching" to some degree on the job. Thankfully that trait continued when he would work with me. But the teaching was different. With an apprentice he was teaching the skills necessary to be a journeyman pipefitter. With me I think dad was teaching life lessons. He used to say, "you can use your brain or your back. One is a hell of a lot easier than the other." But you also need to understand, a lot of the time we were building the family houses (from 1987 to 1992 dad built or restored three homes. The old man constantly needed something to stay occupied so once we would complete one house he would start cooking up reasons why we needed to build another) so he recognized that I needed to know what the hell I was doing or he was going to have to come back and fix it. I remember a time when I was just going through and attaching cover plates to all of the receptacles. I noticed the old man staring over my shoulder and said, "a Union man would make sure the screw slots were perfectly north/south" and then walked away. He left it to me to decide if it was worth going back through and adjusting every screw in the house. It was if for no other reason than to make sure he knew I took the lesson to heart.

    In a nutshell, he taught me the basics and pride in a job well done. He then left it to me to decide what to do with it.

    Yes, I finished college with plans of continuing on in education. I was History and Political Science. Life intervenes in these decisions and I found myself heading down another path. In college I worked in a cabinet shop in the summers and realized it was miserable, mind-numbing, tedious, unrewarding work. But it also taught me more of what I wanted to know. I also worked for an antique auctioneer all through college and learned to respect the unbelievable craftsmanship that went into making a truly usable piece of art. What was so amazing about many of those pieces of furniture is that it would have NEVER occurred to the builder that the piece he was working on would someday be worth thousands of dollars. It was function. It was something that served a purpose. You have sugar and you need a place to store that sugar. Or, you have to sleep somewhere at night so you need a bed. The time spent on beautiful joints that no one would ever see is absolutely humbling. I really can't stress this enough. This craftsman would spend countless hours making a joint abso-fucking-lutely perfect, knowing all the while that he would be the only person that would likely ever see it let alone respect the effort it took. The engineering in a Windsor chair for example. The greater the weight on the chair the stronger the joints get.

    Quite frankly, that is a trait that all of us can apply in our every day lives. Take pride in the work itself. The other shit will take care of itself.

    Sorry if I am being hyperbolic or sappy but you asked.
    Tim,

    You know I am a sap and that was one of the best little bits I have read in a long time. It also explains many of the conversations we have had. I said it before regarding your team, you put the ass in class...wait maybe it is lass...oh well you know what i mean!

    You are top notch and have always been that way to me when you were explaining in shit or giving me tough love, which is greatly needed. Seeing how i have 3 days of work until august, if you ever need someone to wipe your brow or take the trash out I'll be there. Ok enough nut jiggling.

    I have seen several examples of you adding your carpentry skills to frame building in the way of the wooden tube clamp-block things to the basket inlays that are effing beautiful. What skills have you learned as a carpenter that have translated to you being such a high quality frame builder? It might not even be mechanical skills. Do you find the need to work with wood every once in awhile when you spend so much time with steel?
    Dave Bradley...not the grumpy old Hogwarts caretaker "Mr. Filch" or the star of American Ninja 3 and 4.

    formerly "Mr.President"

  16. #36
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    Default Re: Shamrock Cycles

    Tim, what are some of the reasons you might have turned away customers? Do you build whatever it takes to get them on a bike, or do you limit options, forcing the customer to be within a window of fit?

    Also, what are your favorite lugsets to work with? Do you stock a wide range and let the customer choose, build your lugs if necessary, or run with a couple of sets only?
    Thanks!
    Craig
     

  17. #37
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    Default Re: Shamrock Cycles

    Quote Originally Posted by hmbatrail View Post
    Conor,
    My dad, through his years, took on several apprentices in the pipe fitting trade so he was always "teaching" to some degree on the job. Thankfully that trait continued when he would work with me. But the teaching was different. With an apprentice he was teaching the skills necessary to be a journeyman pipefitter. With me I think dad was teaching life lessons. He used to say, "you can use your brain or your back. One is a hell of a lot easier than the other." But you also need to understand, a lot of the time we were building the family houses (from 1987 to 1992 dad built or restored three homes. The old man constantly needed something to stay occupied so once we would complete one house he would start cooking up reasons why we needed to build another) so he recognized that I needed to know what the hell I was doing or he was going to have to come back and fix it. I remember a time when I was just going through and attaching cover plates to all of the receptacles. I noticed the old man staring over my shoulder and said, "a Union man would make sure the screw slots were perfectly north/south" and then walked away. He left it to me to decide if it was worth going back through and adjusting every screw in the house. It was if for no other reason than to make sure he knew I took the lesson to heart.

    In a nutshell, he taught me the basics and pride in a job well done. He then left it to me to decide what to do with it.

    Yes, I finished college with plans of continuing on in education. I was History and Political Science. Life intervenes in these decisions and I found myself heading down another path. In college I worked in a cabinet shop in the summers and realized it was miserable, mind-numbing, tedious, unrewarding work. But it also taught me more of what I wanted to know. I also worked for an antique auctioneer all through college and learned to respect the unbelievable craftsmanship that went into making a truly usable piece of art. What was so amazing about many of those pieces of furniture is that it would have NEVER occurred to the builder that the piece he was working on would someday be worth thousands of dollars. It was function. It was something that served a purpose. You have sugar and you need a place to store that sugar. Or, you have to sleep somewhere at night so you need a bed. The time spent on beautiful joints that no one would ever see is absolutely humbling. I really can't stress this enough. This craftsman would spend countless hours making a joint abso-fucking-lutely perfect, knowing all the while that he would be the only person that would likely ever see it let alone respect the effort it took. The engineering in a Windsor chair for example. The greater the weight on the chair the stronger the joints get.

    Quite frankly, that is a trait that all of us can apply in our every day lives. Take pride in the work itself. The other shit will take care of itself.

    Sorry if I am being hyperbolic or sappy but you asked.
    Not sappy at all.

    Thanks for the response.

    Conor

  18. #38
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    Default Re: Shamrock Cycles

    Dave,
    I still do woodworking but largely as a diversion. I try and incorporate woodworking when I can in framebuilding but you really hit upon the two occasions when I do. I made some wood tubing blocks and I use a set and I gave a set to Don Walker. When I build racks it gives me the chance to use wood but it isn't really "woodworking". I find some time to do a wood project from time to time because I enjoy it.

    I still work on motorcycles as well but that is less of a diversion and more of a necessity. It is a 40 year old British motorcycle so the goddamn thing breaks down all the time.
    Tim O'Donnell- Shamrock Cycles
    www.lugoftheirish.com

  19. #39
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    Default Re: Shamrock Cycles

    Quote Originally Posted by Craig Ryan View Post
    Tim, what are some of the reasons you might have turned away customers? Do you build whatever it takes to get them on a bike, or do you limit options, forcing the customer to be within a window of fit?

    Also, what are your favorite lugsets to work with? Do you stock a wide range and let the customer choose, build your lugs if necessary, or run with a couple of sets only?
    Thanks!
    Craig
    Craig,
    For a good long while I kept trying to find reasons to say yes because I was over eager. I think Carl Strong once said that some customers need to be fired. There comes a point in the discussions that I will realize it isn't a good fit. They will call and change their minds all the time on what they want, they will obsess over lightweight, etc. Customers like that I don't think I can fully satisfy and it is better that everyone walks away as friends rather than square off as enemies. I try and project what type of bike I enjoy building and people that are attracted to that style will seek me out. Essentially, the customers weed themselves out.

    I use pretty much three sets of lugs. The Pacenti Artisan lugs because the world is an open book in terms of the amount of carving you can do on them, Richard's Newvex lugs because they are timeless and are goddamn beautiful, and Dazza's compact lugsets because they offer a sloping top tube.

    I have a few random sets here and there but I always have those three lugsets on hand.
    Tim O'Donnell- Shamrock Cycles
    www.lugoftheirish.com

  20. #40
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    Default Re: Shamrock Cycles

    Quote Originally Posted by hmbatrail View Post
    I also really like how the orange CX bike I had on display at NAHBS Indy turned out.
    that bike was freaking awesome Tim!
    Life is too short to grow up, go ride a bicycle!

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