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Thread: Richard Sachs Cycles

  1. #61
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    Default Re: Richard Sachs Cycles

    Quote Originally Posted by e-RICHIE View Post
    atmo the focus appears to be on fabricating a cult of personality first, and then getting the design experience, assembly skills,and
    business acumen after that. i don't know where it all started, but it sure seems like the natural progression of the current day frame-
    builder is to 1) build a frame, 2) take a picture, 3) blog about it, 4) seek public adoration, 5) go to nahbs, 6) come home and look for
    pictures of his frame on the internet, 7) continue his learning curve by working on his 12th frame for his 5th client, 8) use whatever
    deposits he left has as cash flow, 9) see that it's not all as it appears, and 10) sells his journeyman fixture on the list serve. note that
    i never mention stainless head badges or water jet dropouts from e-machineshop dot com atmo.
    I think we see eye-eye on this and I have a theory as to why the cult of personality often comes first. In some cases the new guy doesn't know enough about the actual craft of framebuilding to have a full respect for it so therefore focuses on what he knows and can see - the cult of personality of the successful builder. They don't realize that the success and cult of that established builder comes from having hundreds or thousands of units pass through their hands (along with the same number of happy customers) so they leapfrog to the desired end skipping the beginning and middle.

    In my view it's a house of cards and will not provide a solid foundation for a business and can/will cause the glut of used jigs on Craig's list.

    It's now a good time to buy a used framebuilding kit out there.


    dave
    D. Kirk
    Kirk Frameworks Co.
    www.kirkframeworks.com


  2. #62
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    Default Re: Richard Sachs Cycles

    I've been wanting to ask you this ever since you asked me. Sorry for being an unoriginal SOB, but...

    What do you know now that you wish you could have known last month, or five years ago? I'm talking about the framebuilding stuff. And the answer doesn't have about a process at the bench, or a tactic that's related to running of the business, but it could be...

    And if you can humor me for one more...

    What is the task in framebuilding that most confounds you , and has it always been that one, or would the answer change at different times in your career?

    PS mass fickung rocks, huh.
    Mike Zanconato
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  3. #63
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    Default Re: Richard Sachs Cycles

    Quote Originally Posted by zank View Post
    PS mass fickung rocks, huh.
    As a former MA resident for 15 years, I concur. Richie, you clearly could do what you do anywhere (or at least anywhere with electricity, running water, and that's accessible by UPS trucks) so what made you choose Franklin?
     

  4. #64
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    Default Re: Richard Sachs Cycles

    Quote Originally Posted by zank View Post
    I've been wanting to ask you this ever since you asked me. Sorry for being an unoriginal SOB, but...

    What do you know now that you wish you could have known last month, or five years ago? I'm talking about the framebuilding stuff. And the answer doesn't have about a process at the bench, or a tactic that's related to running of the business, but it could be...
    i knew this all along but somehow didn't process it -
    a backlog doesn't equal security or success.
    you can only make one frame at a time and get paid for one frame at a time.
    the deposits aren't income or profit, they are space holders atmo.
    all pretty obvious stuff, really.

    Quote Originally Posted by zank View Post
    And if you can humor me for one more...

    What is the task in framebuilding that most confounds you , and has it always been that one, or would the answer change at different times in your career?
    i have never had an easy, seamless, efficient, repeatable method for installing front dropouts.
    few can produce a finished part as beautiful as mine are, but the intermediate steps are not pretty atmo.

    Quote Originally Posted by zank View Post
    PS mass fickung rocks, huh.
    well yeah.

  5. #65
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    Default Re: Richard Sachs Cycles

    Richard,

    Can you type to your relationship with Joe Bell? Very few would argue the statement that he is unquestionably the best in his trade. Did you ever use anyone else for a length of time? Was he at the pinnacle when you started paying for his service? Or did it just happen that the one you chose happen to rise to the top? Did you ever consider painting your frames yourself?

    Thank you,
    Tony
    Anthony Maietta
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    "The person who says it can not be done, should not interrupt the person doing it."

  6. #66
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    Default Re: Richard Sachs Cycles

    thanks so much for this post, alistair.
    really, it seems like yesterday, sitting at my desk at the 1 main street address, when i took your call atmo.



    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Richard,

    I just wanted to echo what's already been said here. You've been very generous with your time, advice and encouragement over the years to many people trying to figure out how to build frames. I've been reading your posts and sifting through your pictures for almost 10 years now. There have been many times when I've "triangulated" my position w.r.t some frame building issue using your advice. Thanks, sincerely.

    Lastly, something I just wanted to get on the record. I called Richard in early 1998 to make some inquiries into how to go about learning framebuilding (he was running an ad in Velo news at the time that said he built the frames and answered the phone. It was true, he did answer the phone). We had a nice chat and he sent me a postcard with some encouraging words on it.
    After I returned from a UBI course later that year I wrote to him wondering about the possibility of building without using a jig. We had used jigs at UBI but I couldn't afford one so I was wondering about alternatives. He wrote me back another postcard telling me not to be shy and to give him a call and he'd talk me through it over the phone.
    I never made that call because shortly afterwards I secured a job at a framebuilding shop and moved out west. No sense in bothering this nice chap in Connecticut when I was going to learn everything I needed to know on the job. It didn't quite turn out that way, the job evaporated almost immediately (that's a story for a different time) but luckily for me the internet came to the rescue as builders began to share their knowledge online through words and pictures. Prominent among these was Richard, not only with his written advice but also his legendary and detailed picture sets, which I've relied on over the years as I've taught myself how to build.
    Anyway, the point of me relating all this is to say that before the spotlight got turned on, and this framebuilding thing went all Vegas, before anyone was looking and when no one would know of his good deeds, Richard was offering encouragement and framebuilding advice to complete strangers. I think that this speaks volumes to who he is as a person and as a mentor.

    Thanks again.

    Alistair.

  7. #67
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    Default Re: Richard Sachs Cycles

    Quote Originally Posted by anthonymaietta View Post
    Richard,

    Can you type to your relationship with Joe Bell? Very few would argue the statement that he is unquestionably the best in his trade. Did you ever use anyone else for a length of time? Was he at the pinnacle when you started paying for his service? Or did it just happen that the one you chose happen to rise to the top? Did you ever consider painting your frames yourself?

    Thank you,
    Tony
    here is the timeline as i recall it -
    sonny braun - 4 miles away
    tanguy cycles - 120 miles away
    john anderson - 2 miles away
    ron manizza - 40 miles away
    cyclart - 3000 miles away
    the cyclesmiths - 3000 miles away
    joe bell - 3000 miles away

    that's 6 hosers in the first 8 years.
    jb and i linked in 1985 and he has been my only painter since.
    there is not a better painter alive.
    one of the perils of being at the top of the food chain is that everyone wants you.
    his being in demand affects all of us who helped set the table for this.
    but he has a family and 2 kids, and i want him to make as much cabbage as possible.
    if he makes me wait, so what - no one is walking because their frame is late or still in prep.
    ps no, he hardly had a commercial business when were first aligned. and NO, i never gave
    a thought to painting at all atmo.

  8. #68
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    Default Re: Richard Sachs Cycles

    Long time listener, first time caller. Mad props to you and your career. We all recognize you as the master, but what have been some of the WTF was I thinking moments in the history of RS.

    Thanks

    Ryan
     

  9. #69
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    Default Re: Richard Sachs Cycles

    Quote Originally Posted by rphetteplace View Post
    Long time listener, first time caller. Mad props to you and your career. We all recognize you as the master, but what have been some of the WTF was I thinking moments in the history of RS.

    Thanks

    Ryan
    there is only one that comes to mind -
    getting online.
    and, yeah - i am serious atmo.

    hey - thanks for reading.

  10. #70
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    Default Re: Richard Sachs Cycles

    Do you have a time set in mind when you will retire from building? A lot of creative, LNT types who make stuff with their hands have a hard time stopping, and work right up to their end. Just curious, and I wish I called that ad in Velonews back in 1998 rather than the little-big company I chose for my first custom road frame.
     

  11. #71
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    Default Re: Richard Sachs Cycles

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Kirk View Post
    In my view it's a house of cards and will not provide a solid foundation for a business and can/will cause the glut of used jigs on Craig's list.

    It's now a good time to buy a used framebuilding kit out there.

    dave
    I've been hearing this same story for 12 years now. I've yet to see it come to pass and not a day goes by that I don't "salute" the long-time pro builder who told me I was a fool and was wasting my time & money when I started building tools. It's a brave new world out there and I like to remember what Ron Sutphin told me in response to my question about the market when I was starting out, "There's always room for one more good framebuilder." I think his words are more true today than ever.
    "It's better to not know so much than to know so many things that ain't so." -- Josh Billings, 1885

    A man with any character at all must have enemies and places he is not welcome—in the end we are not only defined by our friends, but also those aligned against us.


  12. #72
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    Default Re: Richard Sachs Cycles

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinomaster View Post
    Do you have a time set in mind when you will retire from building? A lot of creative, LNT types who make stuff with their hands have a hard time stopping, and work right up to their end. Just curious, and I wish I called that ad in Velonews back in 1998 rather than the little-big company I chose for my first custom road frame.
    shino - i am an ISFP atmo.
    and, no - no dates in sight.
    thanks.

  13. #73
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    Default Re: Richard Sachs Cycles

    Quote Originally Posted by Archibald View Post
    I've been hearing this same story for 12 years now. I've yet to see it come to pass and not a day goes by that I don't "salute" the long-time pro builder who told me I was a fool and was wasting my time & money when I started building tools. It's a brave new world out there and I like to remember what Ron Sutphin told me in response to my question about the market when I was starting out, "There's always room for one more good framebuilder." I think his words are more true today than ever.
    it was in a text buried in the nahbs show guide from a season or three ago in which
    the stats supplied from UBI spoke to that about one percent of its grads go on to be
    commercial or full time effbuilders. ps god gave ron great initials atmo.

  14. #74
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    Default Re: Richard Sachs Cycles

    Quote Originally Posted by e-RICHIE View Post
    it was in a text buried in the nahbs show guide from a season or three ago in which
    the stats supplied from UBI spoke to that about one percent of its grads go on to be
    commercial or full time effbuilders. ps god gave ron great initials atmo.
    What does this mean?
    "It's better to not know so much than to know so many things that ain't so." -- Josh Billings, 1885

    A man with any character at all must have enemies and places he is not welcome—in the end we are not only defined by our friends, but also those aligned against us.


  15. #75
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    Default Re: Richard Sachs Cycles

    Quote Originally Posted by Archibald View Post
    What does this mean?
    it means that ron and i share initials.
    ergo, he and i can hang and be bros.

  16. #76
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    Default Re: Richard Sachs Cycles

    Quote Originally Posted by e-RICHIE View Post
    it means that ron and i share initials.
    ergo, he and i can hang and be bros.
    I got that part. Not to hijack but let me rephrase the question: what purpose do you think UBI's framebuilding courses serve?
    "It's better to not know so much than to know so many things that ain't so." -- Josh Billings, 1885

    A man with any character at all must have enemies and places he is not welcome—in the end we are not only defined by our friends, but also those aligned against us.


  17. #77
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    Default Re: Richard Sachs Cycles

    Quote Originally Posted by Archibald View Post
    I got that part. Not to hijack but let me rephrase the question: what purpose do you think UBI's framebuilding courses serve?
    i believe its purpose is to teach a student how to build himself a frame under supervision atmo.

  18. #78
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    Default Re: Richard Sachs Cycles

    Quote Originally Posted by e-RICHIE View Post
    i believe its purpose is to teach a student how to build himself a frame under supervision atmo.
    Exactly and it means no more or no less. That "student" may or may not have had aspirations of being a "builder", pro or otherwise. It's an introduction, a first date if you will, not a marriage. In my experience, UBI's greatest attribute is that it acts as a filter for the craft and a reality check for the student. The student may show up with Pollyanna visions of living the cycling dream, but at the end of those two weeks, the student's cherry will be popped. He will understand just how hard building a frame really is and will know without a doubt if he'll ever want to build another.
    "It's better to not know so much than to know so many things that ain't so." -- Josh Billings, 1885

    A man with any character at all must have enemies and places he is not welcome—in the end we are not only defined by our friends, but also those aligned against us.


  19. #79
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    Default Re: Richard Sachs Cycles

    Quote Originally Posted by Archibald View Post
    Exactly and it means no more or no less. That "student" may or may not have had aspirations of being a "builder", pro or otherwise. It's an introduction, a first date if you will, not a marriage. In my experience, UBI's greatest attribute is that it acts as a filter for the craft and a reality check for the student. The student may show up with Pollyanna visions of living the cycling dream, but at the end of those two weeks, the student's cherry will be popped. He will understand just how hard building a frame really is and will know without a doubt if he'll ever want to build another.
    cherry poppers unite atmo.

  20. #80
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    Default Re: Richard Sachs Cycles

    Quote Originally Posted by e-RICHIE View Post
    cherry poppers untie atmo.
    Fixed it for you.

    I understand, and deeply appreciate, your monomaniacal commitment to building the same frame over and over again. But do you ever lift your head and think, "I'd like to dive into TIG..." or something even farther afield, either to master a second discipline or merely to dabble?
    GO!

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