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Thread: Coconino Cycles

  1. #41
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    Default Re: Coconino Cycles

    Quote Originally Posted by steve garro View Post
    I liked bikes that didn't steer. bikes that just "were" - ones that would find the way when you were waaayyyy deep in the back of your head thinking about your happy place looking out of the stinging salty portholes that were your eyes.........those, and short chainstay + layed back seatube trials-y bikes that put you on your ass if you let them, but would ride up & on to picnic table, too. like an Ibis Mtn trials, for example. - Garro.
    Real Deal = Mr. Garro.
    *Note, I do not trust anyone to make me a bicycle unless they race, rode 2 billion miles or have an akward vowels in thier last name. SCORE.

  2. #42
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    Default Re: Coconino Cycles

    garro-
    your bikes fucking rock; they're my favorite mountain bikes from a visual standpoint and i like your take on geometry and design. i can't ride one of those things for shit- but whatever i'll get on board sooner or later.

    so- as bike guy when it comes to frame design for given uses, or conditions- it seems like the full suspension thing, the twenty niner thing, and the increasing polarization of "mountain biking" into distinct categories has helped ruin mountain bikes mass appeal- at least here in the local bike shop. fact of the matter is, few of us "down hill" "race cross country" "free ride" or whatever to exclusion of all other types of riding. most mountain bikers i know just ride- and bikes used to reflect that. i think a similar attempt at niche marketing and specialization of design helped kill road bikes in the usa at one point- the industry has finally agreed with the euros and reality that the best road bike is the best at every discipline of road bike riding and racing, crits, long distance riding, grand tours, sprinting, climbing etc. will mountain bikes get there?

    what are your thoughts? new england woods bikes used to be different than west coast bikes which were different than bikes coming out of colorado- but they were all general purpose mountain bikes. what to you is a do everything "mountain bike" if it exists at all?

    thanks,
    craig/jerk
     

  3. #43
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    Default Re: Coconino Cycles

    Hey Steve, I've been a fan since the old frame forum days (post .net but pre banisment era) It's cool to watch a style really get polished as time goes on. What would you say drives your creative changes the most? Do you feel locked to your style by the wait list or do you still find time to tweak things here and there? I know your bikes are no bullshit rides but they are beautiful too and that tells me that you care about the details, what is the one area that you take the most care with aestheticly on your bikes.
    Hope that this dosent' come across like i'm asking for state secrets and I'm fine if you dont' wish to answer any or all of my questions but I dig the creative process and Like to hear about others.

    Thanks,

    Jake
     

  4. #44
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    Default Re: Coconino Cycles

    steve

    whats your favorite all-rounder build for some roadie like jerk or myself. really dig your work and appreciate all u dew for the salon

    thx bro
     

  5. #45
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    Default Re: Coconino Cycles

    Quote Originally Posted by jerk View Post
    garro-


    so- as bike guy when it comes to frame design for given uses, or conditions- it seems like the full suspension thing, the twenty niner thing, and the increasing polarization of "mountain biking" into distinct categories has helped ruin mountain bikes mass appeal- at least here in the local bike shop. fact of the matter is, few of us "down hill" "race cross country" "free ride" or whatever to exclusion of all other types of riding. most mountain bikers i know just ride- and bikes used to reflect that. i think a similar attempt at niche marketing and specialization of design helped kill road bikes in the usa at one point- the industry has finally agreed with the euros and reality that the best road bike is the best at every discipline of road bike riding and racing, crits, long distance riding, grand tours, sprinting, climbing etc. will mountain bikes get there?

    what are your thoughts? new england woods bikes used to be different than west coast bikes which were different than bikes coming out of colorado- but they were all general purpose mountain bikes. what to you is a do everything "mountain bike" if it exists at all?

    thanks,
    craig/jerk
    damn, Craig - do you read minds? I just did an article with an AZ mag about the history of AZ bike culture & it's state, and i flat out said what you just did - that the polarization and the splintering & marginalisation had ruined Mtn bike culture. you were just A Mountain Biker. I put forth as an example the good old natl' series races, where you had to do DH, hill climb, XC *and* trials, and your end result was the tally of the sum {Tomac ruled at this} but now the different "disiplines" have grown so divergent as to have little in common, or worse, animosity. XC v. DH is a big one here. So: A "do everything" MTB: yeah, why not? comfort trumps all first. if you are comfortable, you are confident. that's 1/2 the battle to "cleaning" something. knowing the point of hook-up, trust.........but really, my clients tend to want to really hone in on the conditions they ride most. If you are building a bike to go to the Appalacians, it better be tough. If you are building one for CO. it better be good for sittting & grinding out long climbs, and not skittish on hand-cramping multi 1000ft descents. AZ bikes get lots of dents. SE bikes better be able to stick a fast, burmed out corner.........CA is all over the place. you pay me as much for what i know as what i do. does that help, or just muddy the water? thanks, Craig! - Garro.
    Steve Garro, Coconino Cycles.
    Frames & Bicycles built to measure and Custom wheels
    Hecho en Flagstaff, Arizona desde 2003
    www.coconinocycles.com
    www.coconinocycles.blogspot.com

  6. #46
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    Default Re: Coconino Cycles

    Quote Originally Posted by bellman View Post
    Hey Steve, I've been a fan since the old frame forum days (post .org but pre banisment era) It's cool to watch a style really get polished as time goes on. What would you say drives your creative changes the most? Do you feel locked to your style by the wait list or do you still find time to tweak things here and there? I know your bikes are no bullshit rides but they are beautiful too and that tells me that you care about the details, what is the one area that you take the most care with aestheticly on your bikes.
    Hope that this dosent' come across like i'm asking for state secrets and I'm fine if you dont' wish to answer any or all of my questions but I dig the creative process and Like to hear about others.

    Thanks,

    Jake
    I like to look at builder's bikes and think "I wonder what pissed them off?" because that's where most of my design elements come from - shit that pissed me off. the cracked seat tube on my Yeti that creaked all the way across NZ {!!!!!!} - so - my bikes have a seat tube sleeve. the frozen post & the rust holes in my Fat City - vent holes. the cracked gusset on my Yo Eddy! - no gussets - thicker butting. broken seat/chain stays from disc brakes - my segmented seat stays. torn out H2O bottlebosses - reinforcement diamonds. jacked up headset in my 90' Salsa - longer headtubes. rounded out headtube - 37mm O.D. headtube. creaky Mtb cranks due to BB spacers + shell distortion = 73mm BB shells. I hate short cable housing runs. I like solid housing from bike touring. I like your fuel bottle to be on the bottom of the DT so gas won't leak on you food & clothes on a tour - that will really piss you off. so will a tiny eyelet silver brazed on & busted off in the middle of mexico. I have thought about every damn little thing on each of my frames, and every tiny piece has not only a "why" i can explain to you, but an incident I can quote. how about that? - Garro.
    Steve Garro, Coconino Cycles.
    Frames & Bicycles built to measure and Custom wheels
    Hecho en Flagstaff, Arizona desde 2003
    www.coconinocycles.com
    www.coconinocycles.blogspot.com

  7. #47
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    Default Re: Coconino Cycles

    Quote Originally Posted by DarrenCT View Post
    steve

    whats your favorite all-rounder build for some roadie like jerk or myself. really dig your work and appreciate all u dew for the salon

    thx bro
    more info - to ride on what? gimme some details to work with & i'll check back - Garro.
    Steve Garro, Coconino Cycles.
    Frames & Bicycles built to measure and Custom wheels
    Hecho en Flagstaff, Arizona desde 2003
    www.coconinocycles.com
    www.coconinocycles.blogspot.com

  8. #48
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    Default Re: Coconino Cycles

    Steve,
    It's pretty clear to me from the previous posts that you have a lot of fans in the bike building world. I want you to know that Signal Cycles has been a fan since before we were Signal Cycles. Your willingness to help us out and to engage with us has made a big impression. Your story is inspirational. I know the road has been rough, but you are making a lot of people happy and contributing in a big way to the conversation that is frame building. Thank you.
    What kind of beer should I have with me when I finally make it up to Flagstaff and knock on your door?

  9. #49
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    Default Re: Coconino Cycles

    Steve

    What is the ratio of MTB frames to Road frames that you produce?

    What sort of different challenges, if any, do you find between the build process on a road vs. mtb frame?

    Thanks

    Steven
    Still lovin' this place after all these years

  10. #50
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    Default Re: Coconino Cycles

    Quote Originally Posted by cardinal View Post
    What kind of beer should I have with me when I finally make it up to Flagstaff and knock on your door?
    depends on what we cook, but Pacifico has been the flavour of choice lately with the summer grill season upon us. Hope you like spicy food - Thanks, Matt!!
    Steve Garro, Coconino Cycles.
    Frames & Bicycles built to measure and Custom wheels
    Hecho en Flagstaff, Arizona desde 2003
    www.coconinocycles.com
    www.coconinocycles.blogspot.com

  11. #51
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    Default Re: Coconino Cycles

    Quote Originally Posted by bigmonter View Post
    Steve

    What is the ratio of MTB frames to Road frames that you produce?

    What sort of different challenges, if any, do you find between the build process on a road vs. mtb frame?

    Thanks

    Steven
    If you narrow down "road bike" to be something that had caliper brakes & a 28c or less tire then i have built maybe <10. If you include bikes that are 700c but run up to a 45 then quite a few, but still less then a total of 50. I like building road bikes! they hardly have any braze ons at all. my record for a round the world touring bike is 27 individual braze-on pieces. I have built many, many 29ers, although i'm building a good # of 650B's lately, and 26" Mtb's are on the resurge. i'm Definately a fat-tire guy. it's what i know. That, and loaded touring. all the "true road bikes" were repeat builds for customers I had built a fat tire bike for that dug my fitment & wanted it to carry over. - Garro.
    Steve Garro, Coconino Cycles.
    Frames & Bicycles built to measure and Custom wheels
    Hecho en Flagstaff, Arizona desde 2003
    www.coconinocycles.com
    www.coconinocycles.blogspot.com

  12. #52
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    Default Re: Coconino Cycles

    Steve,

    What I like about your bikes is that they have a sense of style created through actual craft rather than resorting to some subcontractor to laser cut this or engrave that. This seems increasingly rare lately. Well done! I also like that your style considerations don't detract from the core function- a bicycle that's meant to be ridden.

    Talk about your take on 650B in the mountain bike world. What are the advantages and applications for this wheel size?

    As a fellow chef/cook, do you see any parallels with food and frames?

  13. #53
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    Default Re: Coconino Cycles

    Quote Originally Posted by Curt Goodrich View Post
    Steve,

    What I like about your bikes is that they have a sense of style created through actual craft rather than resorting to some subcontractor to laser cut this or engrave that. This seems increasingly rare lately. Well done! I also like that your style considerations don't detract from the core function- a bicycle that's meant to be ridden.

    Talk about your take on 650B in the mountain bike world. What are the advantages and applications for this wheel size?

    As a fellow chef/cook, do you see any parallels with food and frames?
    Thanks, Curt! I have thought about it allot, and do you know what My favourite kind of build is? A whole big stinking pile of black, greasy sticky cat-hair covered 4130 tubes. I like cleaning it, polishing the mill scale off of it, curving, bending, raking, coping, flattening & brazing into a shiny metal piece of functional art. that's rewarding for me. someone takes what i have made from scratch, and it gives then enjoyment. maybe my enjoyment is carried through...........Food is the same, like "Water for Chocolate" a big pile of parts being turned into a whole. with food there is a definate difference where you can tell if the person who concocted it gives a shit or not, and often a complicated final work was just skillfully concocted by an experenced cook from basic ingredients with skill and what appears to be total ease but is actual casual mastery........I love watching the cooks in Mexico! perfect tortillas made without even looking at them, ones you can see through. a bunch of random ingredients thrown in a mortar & pestle is suddenly the best salsa ever..............as far as 650B - I have to say it's making me look at either side of the coin{s} - 26" & 29"/700c. in so many ways 650B seems "just right" for allot of people. it just WORKS. all the ones I have built, the owners seem to say the same thing without quite putting the finger on it. I really hope it sticks. I think it will. 29er is good for some people, and really great for anyone 6'+. if the wheels look too big/small on the bike, they probally are. It's really just an arrow in our quiver to try to make the best ride we can. I try to make all my bikes have the same "flow" in apperance, and to do this the bike needs to fit, and the first step to that is the right size wheel...........Great Questions, Curt - Thanks!! - Garro.
    Steve Garro, Coconino Cycles.
    Frames & Bicycles built to measure and Custom wheels
    Hecho en Flagstaff, Arizona desde 2003
    www.coconinocycles.com
    www.coconinocycles.blogspot.com

  14. #54
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    Default Re: Coconino Cycles

    Quote Originally Posted by steve garro View Post
    I like to look at builder's bikes and think "I wonder what pissed them off?" because that's where most of my design elements come from - shit that pissed me off. the cracked seat tube on my Yeti that creaked all the way across NZ {!!!!!!} - so - my bikes have a seat tube sleeve. the frozen post & the rust holes in my Fat City - vent holes. the cracked gusset on my Yo Eddy! - no gussets - thicker butting. broken seat/chain stays from disc brakes - my segmented seat stays. torn out H2O bottlebosses - reinforcement diamonds. jacked up headset in my 90' Salsa - longer headtubes. rounded out headtube - 37mm O.D. headtube. creaky Mtb cranks due to BB spacers + shell distortion = 73mm BB shells. I hate short cable housing runs. I like solid housing from bike touring. I like your fuel bottle to be on the bottom of the DT so gas won't leak on you food & clothes on a tour - that will really piss you off. so will a tiny eyelet silver brazed on & busted off in the middle of mexico. I have thought about every damn little thing on each of my frames, and every tiny piece has not only a "why" i can explain to you, but an incident I can quote. how about that? - Garro.
    This rings all the bells in me
    very loudy

    and I will be as harsh to say
    I read many times some postee going all go gah about a bike
    and one can see some thing like a grain of rice size frame pump pip and you know it is useless and all the paint will rub off from the pump rattling, if it stays on at all
    or
    super thin slender drop outs that the lifetimers know will be breaking after five years of use
    things like this do my head in.....................
    pretty things on bikes are not a mortal sin
    but
    pretty things must never take any thing away from the bike's performance and or life span or practicality
    Steve Garro looks and observes and it registers and he outs this into his selection, design and metal work
    Steve's bikes are to be ridden intensley
    huge amounts of enjoyment from them
    and thus they are cherished
    Bravo!
    Cheers Dazza
    The rock star is dying. And it's a small tragedy. Rock stars have blogs now. I have no use for that kind of rock star.
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  15. #55
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    Default Re: Coconino Cycles

    Quote Originally Posted by steve garro View Post
    torn out H2O bottlebosses - rounded out headtube
    I like your fuel bottle to be on the bottom of the DT so gas won't leak on you food & clothes on a tour
    I had a Waterford that did both those things as well as a broken driveside dropout (very delicate looking Henry James dropout) and the driveside chainstay that cracked 3/4 of the way around the tube right behind the bb. Very light, but it didn't matter after it broke. I think I remember you saying "A heavy bike is faster than a broken bike"
    I also thank you for that little tidbit of info that will no doubt be put into use when my girlfriend get her touring bike:) I'll bring some Okie beer if I ever make it out to Flagstaff.
    Eric Doswell, aka Edoz
    Summoner of Crickets
    http://edozbicycles.wordpress.com/
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    In Before the Lock

  16. #56
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    Default Re: Coconino Cycles

    Quote Originally Posted by steve garro View Post
    more info - to ride on what? gimme some details to work with & i'll check back - Garro.
    dirt trails, lotsa rocks, jumping some logs, twisty turny stuff
     

  17. #57
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    Default Re: Coconino Cycles

    What do you check on the alignment table, and what are your standards?
    Eric Doswell, aka Edoz
    Summoner of Crickets
    http://edozbicycles.wordpress.com/
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/edozbicycles/
    In Before the Lock

  18. #58
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    Default Re: Coconino Cycles

    powder or paint? local or far-away?

    650b going to survive?

    has it quit snowing there yet?

    thanks for playing.






  19. #59
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    Default Re: Coconino Cycles

    This Smoked Out nonsense has to STOP now!!!
    Garro, I've wanted to replace my Wicked F.C. forever becuase Chris didn't think anyone should ride a bike as big as I asked for!!!!
    I crushed three of his frames racing...your comments ring a bell ;)
    YOU are not helping matter you eff'r. My mtn bike racing days are over becuase my hands can't take the abuse but I still ride dirt
    and love fat tyres very much. Of all the builders in all the bars I'd pick you to build something around a Schwalbe Big Apple 29 x 2.35
    Carry on.

  20. #60
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    Default Re: Coconino Cycles

    Quote Originally Posted by Dazza View Post
    This rings all the bells in me
    very loudy

    and I will be as harsh to say
    I read many times some postee going all go gah about a bike
    and one can see some thing like a grain of rice size frame pump pip and you know it is useless and all the paint will rub off from the pump rattling, if it stays on at all
    or
    super thin slender drop outs that the lifetimers know will be breaking after five years of use
    things like this do my head in.....................
    pretty things on bikes are not a mortal sin
    but
    pretty things must never take any thing away from the bike's performance and or life span or practicality
    Steve Garro looks and observes and it registers and he outs this into his selection, design and metal work
    Steve's bikes are to be ridden intensley
    huge amounts of enjoyment from them
    and thus they are cherished
    Bravo!
    Thanks allot, Dazza! that was nice to wake up to. I have to say that i can tell if, and i think it is absolutely a must that a builder have his mechanico chops at top notch.
    And their eyes wide open. and ears too, and your mind. It certainly shows in your work, and all your damn sweet frame bits. Thank You for double cast eyelets! - Garro.
    Steve Garro, Coconino Cycles.
    Frames & Bicycles built to measure and Custom wheels
    Hecho en Flagstaff, Arizona desde 2003
    www.coconinocycles.com
    www.coconinocycles.blogspot.com

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