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Thread: What has been happening to Tires?

  1. #121
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    Default Re: What has been happening to Tires?

    If we have to speak about performance, my wild guess is that aeroness of the tire/rim combo may trump or diminish any difference in rolling resistance and this is very hard to measure as some rim shapes are optimized for certain size but depending on the frame it might also be better or worse. Additionnally the tire choice of NaÔro Quintana may depend on how much his bike is closed to the 6.8kg limit and it might be different in a plain or mountain stage.

    Adding to that the optimal tire compound and pressure for a given day depend on the weather and the roads that will be used.

    So in the end probably nobody fuck knows which is better. I choose 28mm tubulars because they feel buttery smooth without being boat anchors and inflate between 4.5ish to 6.5 bars depending on variables conditions (risk of rain, group or solo ride, bad or good roads) without overthinking about it either.
    --
    T h o m a s

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    Default Re: What has been happening to Tires?

    Quote Originally Posted by sk_tle View Post
    the tire choice of NaÔro Quintana may depend on how much his bike is closed to the 6.8kg limit and it might be different in a plain or mountain stage.

    Adding to that the optimal tire compound and pressure for a given day depend on the weather and the roads that will be used.

    So in the end probably nobody fuck knows which is better. I choose 28mm tubulars because they feel buttery smooth without being boat anchors and inflate between 4.5ish to 6.5 bars depending on variables conditions (risk of rain, group or solo ride, bad or good roads) without overthinking about it either.
    Horses for courses.

    In Vancouver where our roads are generally not a frost cracked disaster, I still mostly ride some shimano wheels with 23mm vittoria corsas
    (admittedly, those measure 24.5mm even on a skinny Shimano rim) and feel like these are the optimal performance road tire size,
    especially if i'm doing a lot of climbing, especially if it's steep enough to be out of the saddle often.

    I have the 25mm Corsa controls on other wheels which measure 26.5mm, and while they are more versatile with regard to tire pressure range,
    they don't ride as nice as the 23's. But that's my impression on my Parlee that is the sweetest riding frame i've ridden, and not a hella stiff
    modern job.

    Also, when i travel back east, especially on the carpet bombed roads around Toronto, i'd probably reach for 32's.

    -g
    EPOst hoc ergo propter hoc

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    Default Re: What has been happening to Tires?

    Is the tire tightness issue because more rims are tubeless compatible now? I had a hell of a time getting a tire on recently and I don't remember this happening when I last rode regularly 10 years ago.

    I just bought 5 vittoria rubino pro 3's at a wild price (~20 a tire) so those should work for me for a while.

    There's also this site for all the data junkies.
    Vittoria Rubino Pro III Rolling Resistance Review

    Those wolfpack's look good and come in a 26! I may have to swing for those at some point. I want to run the widest tires I can fit in my rim brake roadie. I'm 31 but after 2 back surgeries I'll take a more comfortable day in the saddle over being a hair faster. If end up getting another wheelset for my 2nd bike, I might get a pair of these to try out at some point.

    Wolfpack Road Race Tire - Prestacycle LLC


    Quote Originally Posted by giordana93 View Post
    and I just want to re-state that a wider tire on a wider rim just simply is not the same beast as on a narrow rim. The flip flop of the higher sidewalls is not there. Obviously an exaggeration, but for the thought experiment, a pic of a wide tire/wheel combo. Not much sidewall flex here


    Attachment 115559
    I'm a bit of a car enthusiast and am a bit involved in the miata community (dont do spec miata or anything though). Testing done by a few miata folks that know their ish showed that fitting a narrower tire on the rim was actually faster. So we've been using 225's on an 9's and 205's on 8's. That had been shown to be fastest. Most folks not tied to class restrictions were doing this.
     

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    Default Re: What has been happening to Tires?

    I’ve just ordered a set of FMB clinchers, so it’ll only be a matter of time before folk who aren’t aware of them will either start wondering how I got a set of tubular WTOs, or why I’ve put a tubular label on my clincher tyres...

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    Default Re: What has been happening to Tires?

    Quote Originally Posted by RichTheRoadie View Post
    Iíve just ordered a set of FMB clinchers, so itíll only be a matter of time before folk who arenít aware of them will either start wondering how I got a set of tubular WTOs, or why Iíve put a tubular label on my clincher tyres...
    I'm more interested in how you put a tubular label on your clinchers...
    Colin Mclelland

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    Default Re: What has been happening to Tires?

    Quote Originally Posted by ridethecliche View Post

    I'm a bit of a car enthusiast and am a bit involved in the miata community (dont do spec miata or anything though). Testing done by a few miata folks that know their ish showed that fitting a narrower tire on the rim was actually faster. So we've been using 225's on an 9's and 205's on 8's. That had been shown to be fastest. Most folks not tied to class restrictions were doing this.
    Faster for what kind of racing? For something like an autocross where you have a lot of transient inputs I can see it. Road courses maybe not so much. Running a tire on a slightly wider rim is going to bump up your lateral springrates and enable your tire to take a set much quicker. Having a little less tread to get up to operating temperature helps too. but ultimate grip will be down slightly. the larger tire lets you run a lower pressure and get more contact area which boosts grip.
     

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    Default Re: What has been happening to Tires?

    Quote Originally Posted by jerk View Post
    think about a 1200 watt short attack up a steep cobbled climb to make a gap that you hope will stick and win the race- a narrower higher pressure tire according to ANYONE who has even been in such a situation is preferred.
    I don't understand the physics of this, even on a dry day preceded by at least 3 straight dry days. (I realise you're talking about universal preference amongst a specific cohort rather than physics.)
    Chikashi Miyamoto

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    Default Re: What has been happening to Tires?

    Quote Originally Posted by zachateseverything View Post
    Faster for what kind of racing? For something like an autocross where you have a lot of transient inputs I can see it. Road courses maybe not so much. Running a tire on a slightly wider rim is going to bump up your lateral springrates and enable your tire to take a set much quicker. Having a little less tread to get up to operating temperature helps too. but ultimate grip will be down slightly. the larger tire lets you run a lower pressure and get more contact area which boosts grip.
    Faster on road courses.
     

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    Default Re: What has been happening to Tires?

    Quote Originally Posted by ridethecliche View Post
    Faster on road courses.
    Yeah, I'm not sure that I buy that if they're comparing otherwise identical tires unless they've moving from something that's way too wide. but a 225 vs a 205? nah.
     

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    Default Re: What has been happening to Tires?

    Quote Originally Posted by zachateseverything View Post
    Yeah, I'm not sure that I buy that if they're comparing otherwise identical tires unless they've moving from something that's way too wide. but a 225 vs a 205? nah.
    You can choose to purchase or not purchase whatever you'd like, but those were the results that the fast guys were getting. Namely Trackspeed Engineering/racing and 949 racing. They're relatively big in the miata racing scene.

    Same tires on same wheels, just different tire sizes on the same rims.
     

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    Default Re: What has been happening to Tires?

    Quote Originally Posted by ridethecliche View Post
    You can choose to purchase or not purchase whatever you'd like, but those were the results that the fast guys were getting. Namely Trackspeed Engineering/racing and 949 racing. They're relatively big in the miata racing scene.

    Same tires on same wheels, just different tire sizes on the same rims.
    must be a gearing thing
     

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    Default Re: What has been happening to Tires?

    About to mount these up - will hopefully get out on them briefly today too:


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    Default Re: What has been happening to Tires?

    I'm curious to how they compare to Veloflex?
     

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    Default Re: What has been happening to Tires?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sascha Roszak View Post
    I'm curious to how they compare to Veloflex?
    We’ll both have to stay curious - they only leave about 0.5mm clearance on my C40; and they don’t look right on the Time! Gutted...

    For info and reference, on the WTOs (21mm internal width) this 26c version measures 27.3mm.

    Also, this is the most true ‘open tubular’ I’ve seen - the casing feels exactly the same as the FMB tubs I had; and they really are genuinely hand made in appearance. For a clincher, they’re borderline beautiful!

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    Default Re: What has been happening to Tires?

    I'm not prepared to go tubeless or give up my Veloflex clincher tires yet but I've read several times setting them up with latex tubes and a squirt of Orange Seal inside works great, apparently as nice as tubulars?
     

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    Default Re: What has been happening to Tires?

    No need to bother with the sealant!

    I’ve not used latex tubes in clinchers yet. Maybe the need to buy another new set of tyres now is a good opportunity to do that...

    I’ve used Veloflex every time I’ve needed clinchers in recent times, though - they do feel good and seem to last well.

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    Default Re: What has been happening to Tires?

    Apparently the sealant works really well with latex tubes, this can offset the lack of puncture protection but keep the feel similar to a tubular...

    What’s faster, tubes or tubeless? The answer remains the same: it depends | CyclingTips
     

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    Default Re: What has been happening to Tires?

    Buried in the language of the test in CyclingTips are the words "for a given pressure". It's splitting hairs but since they're also trying to measure to fractions of a watt, please indulge me.

    They can't really seriously want to compare tires when they're using the same pressure for different sized tires. Or even the same pressure for different brands of the same size. There will almost certainly be variations there.

    Finally, the author (with whom many of us here have ridden) talks about tubulars and the layer of "gooey glue" between the tire and the rim as watt robbing. Tubulars have never been about lowest rolling resistance. This has long been known. For me, when I rode tubulars almost exclusively, it was about their superior comfort and their durability. It was never that I thought they were faster. The issue of comfort has now been made much blurrier through the use of wider rims but that's another issue altogether and one that's harder to quantify.

    But the test in the article seems to have a flaw by measuring different sizes of tire at the same pressure, something I wouldn't do in real life.
    La Cheeserie!

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    Default Re: What has been happening to Tires?

    Let me throw this out there to everyone. I recently learned that Michelin doesn't recommend riding with their green latex tubes and carbon rims. Seems they are worried about too much heat that could be generated with long downhill braking. (Personally, I brake as little as possible going downhill. Isn't going fast downhill fun? Who would want to limit the fun? It's like saying yeah, that sex thing, less is better. I digress.) The questions are:

    Have you folks have heard about this?

    Is this recommendation just over-caution, where Michelin was worried about the cycling neophyte who drags brakes down Mount Ventoux?

    Do you use latex tubes anyway?

    Heard of the same problem with other brands (e.g. Vittoria)?
     

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    Default Re: What has been happening to Tires?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sascha Roszak View Post
    I'm not prepared to go tubeless or give up my Veloflex clincher tires yet but I've read several times setting them up with latex tubes and a squirt of Orange Seal inside works great, apparently as nice as tubulars?
    I tried that briefly. For me it was a short unsuccessful experiment. As soon as the tyre goes flat the tube sticks to itself and you can no longer inflate it. I was hoping the sealant would overcome the porosity of the tube. Not so much in my case but YMMV
    Colin Mclelland

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