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Thread: what do you say.. ten years

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    Default what do you say.. ten years

    until we're seeing buckypaper frames?

    shrink, terrorist, poet, president of concerned cyclists for the abolishment of bovine source bicycle parts and head of the disaffected commie dishwashers union.

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    maybe less if they come up with a better name.

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    Quote Originally Posted by happycampyer View Post
    maybe less if they come up with a better name.
    the name is entirely appropriate. named for Buckminster Fuller. these are no doubt comprised of bucky balls.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckminster_Fuller

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    nick, is this stuff just essentially carbon fiber that's essentially smaller than the threads we commonly associate with cf? like carbon microfober or something...?

    i've heard so many uses of the word nanotube that i've lost the meaning... i think i might be a nanotube.
    shrink, terrorist, poet, president of concerned cyclists for the abolishment of bovine source bicycle parts and head of the disaffected commie dishwashers union.

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    Quote Originally Posted by swoop View Post
    nick, is this stuff just essentially carbon fiber that's essentially smaller than the threads we commonly associate with cf? like carbon microfober or something...?

    i've heard so many uses of the word nanotube that i've lost the meaning... i think i might be a nanotube.
    they are actually hollow carbon tubes rather than solid filaments. They have been used for quite some time as fillers in plastics for conductivity and strength. You add them to base polymers to make the final plastic part conduct electricity (you can give the part a static charge to help paint stick to it) and/or heat and make them tougher. These nanotube fibers are very short though. The challenge has been how to grow the tubes long enough to turn into fabric for structural components.

    One of my old customers from my plastics days has been making nanotubes for a long time. You can learn more here:
    http://www.hyperioncatalysis.com/

    Last edited by zank; 10-18-2008 at 07:28 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by crumpton View Post
    the name is entirely appropriate. named for Buckminster Fuller. these are no doubt comprised of bucky balls.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckminster_Fuller
    Love the technology, and I wasn't trying to take anything away from Bucky Fuller, but I think that people will balk at a bike that is made of a material with the word "paper" in it. I'm sure that a bike made from bucky balls will be strong too, but that may be a tough sell, too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by happycampyer View Post
    Love the technology, and I wasn't trying to take anything away from Bucky Fuller, but I think that people will balk at a bike that is made of a material with the word "paper" in it. I'm sure that a bike made from bucky balls will be strong too, but that may be a tough sell, too.
    no matter. if we don't buy it, Boeing and UTC will.
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    Why is the dude at the start handling it as if it could blow any second? :hahaha:

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    Quote Originally Posted by swoop View Post
    nick, is this stuff just essentially carbon fiber that's essentially smaller than the threads we commonly associate with cf? like carbon microfober or something...?

    i've heard so many uses of the word nanotube that i've lost the meaning... i think i might be a nanotube.
    zank covered it, nano tubes. i am actually not all that up to speed on it but i do understand the bucky part.

    my prediction, long before nano hits bikes, we will see thermoplastic resins replacing epoxy on the high end. yeah yeah, i know its been done before but was heavy. i am talking super tough super light thermoplastic/carbon bits. its just a hunch.
    Last edited by crumpton; 10-18-2008 at 08:33 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by crumpton View Post
    zank covered it, nano tubes. i am actually not all that up to speed on it but i do understand the bucky part.

    my prediction, long before nano hits bikes, we will see thermoplastic resins replacing epoxy on the high end. yeah yeah, i know its been done before but was heavy. i am talking super tough super light thermoplastic/carbon bits. its just a hunch.
    +1 since some pretty crafty builders are already experimenting with the thermoplastic/carbon bits. I would not be surprised to see some pretty interesting prototypes next IBike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by taylorj View Post
    +1 since some pretty crafty builders are already experimenting with the thermoplastic/carbon bits. I would not be surprised to see some pretty interesting prototypes next IBike.
    no waymo. the future is in fashion and branding atmo...



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    the big problem with heavily loaded thermoplastics (40% filler loading or more) is they become very difficult to mold. You need monster gates in your molds, otherwise you smash your fillers to microscopic bits when you inject your part. When I was working for LNP, they were very successful with a long-glass fiber product. It was incredibly stiff for a composite thermoplastic, but still an order of magnitude away from aluminum. And it was limited to crystalline polymers, which are very difficult to hold a dimensional tolerance on in a final part. But it had so many other incredible qualities that post-mold machining was worth the effort. They worked hard on a long-carbon fiber product, but couldn't get the resin to wet out on the surface of the fiber well enough. That material could get closer in stiffness to aluminum and be molded or extruded, opening up tremendous design freedom.

    All that being said, it would be awesome to see some thermoplastics be used in the industry. The biggest hurdle is the stigma of plastic. People think it's cheap, even if it's 30% carbon fiber and 10% teflon filled Ultem, which sells for $75 - $100 a pound. It's still black plastic. It must be some cheap part made in a job shop somewhere in the 3rd world. At least, that is the perception.

    Some days I acually miss the technology in the plastics business. Fun stuff.
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    e-Richie...don't show this stuff unless it is available for purchase!

    P.S. I still prefer to ride steel and so thermo-plastics are probably not in my future.

    P.S.S. I said "crafty" builders. Not Master builders atmo. BIG difference. I am down with the fashion and brandingmo!

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    Quote Originally Posted by zank View Post
    the big problem with heavily loaded thermoplastics (40% filler loading or more) is they become very difficult to mold. You need monster gates in your molds, otherwise you smash your fillers to microscopic bits when you inject your part. When I was working for LNP, they were very successful with a long-glass fiber product. It was incredibly stiff for a composite thermoplastic, but still an order of magnitude away from aluminum. And it was limited to crystalline polymers, which are very difficult to hold a dimensional tolerance on in a final part. But it had so many other incredible qualities that post-mold machining was worth the effort. They worked hard on a long-carbon fiber product, but couldn't get the resin to wet out on the surface of the fiber well enough. That material could get closer in stiffness to aluminum and be molded or extruded, opening up tremendous design freedom.

    All that being said, it would be awesome to see some thermoplastics be used in the industry. The biggest hurdle is the stigma of plastic. People think it's cheap, even if it's 30% carbon fiber and 10% teflon filled Ultem, which sells for $75 - $100 a pound. It's still black plastic. It must be some cheap part made in a job shop somewhere in the 3rd world. At least, that is the perception.

    Some days I acually miss the technology in the plastics business. Fun stuff.
    the only part of this i get is i also hate it when i can't get the resin to wet out the surface of the fiber well enough

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    Quote Originally Posted by twowheels View Post
    the only part of this i get is i also hate it when i can't get the resin to wet out the surface of the fiber well enough
    that's so craigslist atmo.

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    that hoodie would sell to the ufc crowd

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