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Thread: Welcome back Mr Chance!!!!!!

  1. #241
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    Default Re: Welcome back Mr Chance!!!!!!

    Apparently Chris just dropped them off for Sea Otter. If only I had timed my ride better, I could have told him in person
     

  2. #242
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    Default Re: Welcome back Mr Chance!!!!!!

    Details on the newest version of the FAT frames. Looks like they fixed some of the problems on the NAHBS bike:

    Fat Chance Bicycles » Chris’ Blog: Yo Eddy goes to Sea Otter.

    https://www.facebook.com/fatchancebi...type=1&theater
     

  3. #243
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    Default Re: Welcome back Mr Chance!!!!!!

    Horrible. Curved seat tube!? And still only clearance for a 2.25" tire!? Multiple cable/hose routings instead of a single, common path?

    These look like a hodgepodge to me. People sure are paying a lot of money for a hot mess, some nostalgia, and 'grello' paint.

    (And I was really psyched about this at the beginning)
    John Cully
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  4. #244
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    Default Re: Welcome back Mr Chance!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by echelon_john View Post
    Horrible. Curved seat tube!? And still only clearance for a 2.25" tire!? Multiple cable/hose routings instead of a single, common path?

    These look like a hodgepodge to me. People sure are paying a lot of money for a hot mess, some nostalgia, and 'grello' paint.

    (And I was really psyched about this at the beginning)
    If you want a 29" wheel with a fat tire (and I think 2.25" tire is pretty fat having grown up in the world of 2.0" tires on mountain bikes) and don't want super steep seat angles or super long chainstays, I think you're pretty much stuck with curved seat tubes.

    Chance is fighting a whole lot of outside opinions about what his bikes should be based on the nostalgia and myth of what the public thinks they should be and it's working to his detriment. I've been critical too of his prototypes, but the curved seat tube and cable runs are all evolutions towards making a bike that actually works, unlike his zero clearance seat tube on the last iteration of this bike. I mean, look at this bike:

    yo eddy.jpg

    It has a straight seat tube, lots of tire clearance, and a clustered cable run (it doesn't have this last bit, but you can't see the dropper seat post cable from this side so it at least appears to have this "requirement") and all I see is a seat tube angle that is so steep that the nose of the saddle is nearly perpendicular to the BB. Unrideable, in my opinion.

    There are lots of perceived problems with Mr. Chance's return to the bike industry. The first might have been his poll asking the public what the first bike should be. He never should have let the public dictate his path, he didn't the first time so why now? What made his bikes so good the first time was his pushing of a new type of riding by making better bikes than what was available. 25 years later and after being so far removed from the industry for so long he's not really in a position to innovate any more, not to mention there's been lots of big money companies who picked up where he left and have made bigger, better bikes than a retired massage therapist can possibly do with limited funding and a vague recollection of an idea about mountain bikes. That doesn't mean he shouldn't be making a come back though.

    There are lots of us who resist the "newer, better, faster" stuff. I still roll out my rigid steel Stumpjumper from time to time and it makes me very happy, and I don't like 1X or 2X or electric or fetishcarbon or, or, or.... this is where Chance's niche is, or could be. He needs to make a solid, no nonsense bike, maybe eschew the rotating door of wheel size "standards" etc (he's showcasing two wheels sizes on essentially the same bike like he's trying to cover all bases, pick one and run with it) and focus on what makes a bike ride/handle well while embracing certain aspects of modern cycling technology like disc brakes and decent suspension forks and dropper seatposts. That's kind of what we all wanted from him in the beginning of this "comeback" and kind of where he's heading with this 1.2 version of his grello bike. But mostly what he needs to do is get out of the damn spotlight. He needs to work these things out before showing up at NAHBS and Sea Otter. He needs to build up his bikes and ride them hard (or get someone younger to ride them hard) before he puts a $750 paint job on a prototype.

    Mostly, he needs to be doing it in a way that idiots like me aren't in a position to tell him how he needs to be doing it.
     

  5. #245
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    Default Re: Welcome back Mr Chance!!!!!!

    ^Agreed with all of that.

    He needs to decide what he wants to build, and do it. If he doesn't know...then, maybe he shouldn't build anything.
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  6. #246
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    Default Re: Welcome back Mr Chance!!!!!!

    Niner and lots of other people seem to have figured out how to do it. I think the issue is that the tight "East Coast" geometry that defined Fat 1.0 needs to evolve more to be optimized for 29" wheels and today's handling expectations. You can still make a quick-steering, responsive bike without having the rear tire rubbing the seat tube. Pretty much any 29er on the market today takes 2.4" tires (given that actual sizes vary A LOT) and doesn't look whacky doing it.

    I agree with your main point, that these bikes aren't really ready for primetime; I think they're actually diminishing the 'buzz' and, perhaps, the potential success, of his comeback.




    Quote Originally Posted by Sinclair View Post
    If you want a 29" wheel with a fat tire (and I think 2.25" tire is pretty fat having grown up in the world of 2.0" tires on mountain bikes) and don't want super steep seat angles or super long chainstays, I think you're pretty much stuck with curved seat tubes.
    John Cully
    Echelon Cycle Works
    Part-Time Frame & Wheel Builder
    Full-Time Marketing Consultant/CD/Copywriter
    Oenophile
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  7. #247
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    Default Re: Welcome back Mr Chance!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by echelon_john View Post
    Niner and lots of other people seem to have figured out how to do it. I think the issue is that the tight "East Coast" geometry that defined Fat 1.0 needs to evolve more to be optimized for 29" wheels and today's handling expectations. You can still make a quick-steering, responsive bike without having the rear tire rubbing the seat tube. Pretty much any 29er on the market today takes 2.4" tires (given that actual sizes vary A LOT) and doesn't look whacky doing it.
    Niner does it with a curved seat tube. Their carbon bike too. I thought you were being critical of the curved seat tube? It's a simple geometry issue, if you don't want super steep seat angles or super long chainstays I think you're pretty much stuck with a curved seat tube. Or are you saying something else?
     

  8. #248
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    Default Re: Welcome back Mr Chance!!!!!!

    No curve on these:
    E.M.D. 9
    S.I.R. 9 (steel)

    I am critical of the curved seat tube on the Fat; not because I hate curved seat tubes, but because it's a knee-jerk reaction to the tire/seat tube clearance issue on the show bike. "Super long chain stays" is relative; on the show bike, it was like he used the CS measurement from a 26" bike and wondered why there was no clearance. My point was that you can lengthen the chain stays (instead of curving the seat tube), maintain the visual look of the 'classic' Fat Chance, and still maintain great ride characteristics.
    John Cully
    Echelon Cycle Works
    Part-Time Frame & Wheel Builder
    Full-Time Marketing Consultant/CD/Copywriter
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  9. #249
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    Default Re: Welcome back Mr Chance!!!!!!

    There's two ways to interpret the changes:

    1) There was no plan and this is all knee jerk response to the marketplace.
    2) This is the natural evolution of design and testing for a new model that Mr Chance and team are building from scratch.

    Where you fall on the discussion I think says a lot about how you view the situation, and the truth is probably somewhere in between.

    And the curved seat tube is pretty weird I think. These aren't funny TT bikes.
     

  10. #250
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    Default Re: Welcome back Mr Chance!!!!!!

    Curved seat tubes are fairly common now-a-days if you want a short stayed 29'er. I offset my seattubes a bit to get clearance, but curving works. Curving and offsetting if you really really want some clearance.
    Will Neide (pronounced Nighty, like the thing worn to bed)

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  11. #251
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    Default Re: Welcome back Mr Chance!!!!!!

    Curved seat tubes are here for a reason- they help.

    Lots of great builders build curved seat tube bikes- not sure I can poo-poo le Fat for that.
     

  12. #252
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    Default Re: Welcome back Mr Chance!!!!!!

    And the answer seems to be...both! ; )

    It's hard not to see the curved seat tube as a response to the world of crap the show bike caught for lack of tire clearance. And this IS normal product iteration/testing...it's just that this usually occurs BEFORE you bring the bike to a show with national visibility! ; )

    Anyway, hopefully at the end of the day these will live up to the legacy.

    Quote Originally Posted by theflashunc View Post
    There's two ways to interpret the changes:

    1) There was no plan and this is all knee jerk response to the marketplace.
    2) This is the natural evolution of design and testing for a new model that Mr Chance and team are building from scratch.

    Where you fall on the discussion I think says a lot about how you view the situation, and the truth is probably somewhere in between.

    And the curved seat tube is pretty weird I think. These aren't funny TT bikes.
    John Cully
    Echelon Cycle Works
    Part-Time Frame & Wheel Builder
    Full-Time Marketing Consultant/CD/Copywriter
    Oenophile
    Bon Vivant
    Man of Letters

  13. #253
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    Default Re: Welcome back Mr Chance!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sinclair View Post
    If you want a 29" wheel with a fat tire (and I think 2.25" tire is pretty fat having grown up in the world of 2.0" tires on mountain bikes) and don't want super steep seat angles or super long chainstays, I think you're pretty much stuck with curved seat tubes.

    Chance is fighting a whole lot of outside opinions about what his bikes should be based on the nostalgia and myth of what the public thinks they should be and it's working to his detriment. I've been critical too of his prototypes, but the curved seat tube and cable runs are all evolutions towards making a bike that actually works, unlike his zero clearance seat tube on the last iteration of this bike. I mean, look at this bike:

    yo eddy.jpg

    It has a straight seat tube, lots of tire clearance, and a clustered cable run (it doesn't have this last bit, but you can't see the dropper seat post cable from this side so it at least appears to have this "requirement") and all I see is a seat tube angle that is so steep that the nose of the saddle is nearly perpendicular to the BB. Unrideable, in my opinion.

    There are lots of perceived problems with Mr. Chance's return to the bike industry. The first might have been his poll asking the public what the first bike should be. He never should have let the public dictate his path, he didn't the first time so why now? What made his bikes so good the first time was his pushing of a new type of riding by making better bikes than what was available. 25 years later and after being so far removed from the industry for so long he's not really in a position to innovate any more, not to mention there's been lots of big money companies who picked up where he left and have made bigger, better bikes than a retired massage therapist can possibly do with limited funding and a vague recollection of an idea about mountain bikes. That doesn't mean he shouldn't be making a come back though.

    There are lots of us who resist the "newer, better, faster" stuff. I still roll out my rigid steel Stumpjumper from time to time and it makes me very happy, and I don't like 1X or 2X or electric or fetishcarbon or, or, or.... this is where Chance's niche is, or could be. He needs to make a solid, no nonsense bike, maybe eschew the rotating door of wheel size "standards" etc (he's showcasing two wheels sizes on essentially the same bike like he's trying to cover all bases, pick one and run with it) and focus on what makes a bike ride/handle well while embracing certain aspects of modern cycling technology like disc brakes and decent suspension forks and dropper seatposts. That's kind of what we all wanted from him in the beginning of this "comeback" and kind of where he's heading with this 1.2 version of his grello bike. But mostly what he needs to do is get out of the damn spotlight. He needs to work these things out before showing up at NAHBS and Sea Otter. He needs to build up his bikes and ride them hard (or get someone younger to ride them hard) before he puts a $750 paint job on a prototype.

    Mostly, he needs to be doing it in a way that idiots like me aren't in a position to tell him how he needs to be doing it.
    ^^ Gets it!

    This whole crowd-sourced "pick-what-I-build" thing is a newb-builder mistake and not the way an industry icon with his legacy aught to be running a buisiness imho.
    laughter has no foreign accent.

  14. #254
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    Default Re: Welcome back Mr Chance!!!!!!

    ^^ Gets it!

    This whole crowd-sourced "pick-what-I-build" thing is a newb-builder mistake and not the way an industry icon with his legacy aught to be running a buisiness imho.
    And then there is this (not a comment on CC): https://www.yahoo.com/tech/storm-ebi...935222729.html
    Kevin Grady
    Chi va piano, va sano e va lontano.

  15. #255
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    Default Re: Welcome back Mr Chance!!!!!!

    Damn, DP
    Kevin Grady
    Chi va piano, va sano e va lontano.

  16. #256
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    Default Re: Welcome back Mr Chance!!!!!!

    Im not a diehard mtb dude, but whats the big deal?
    the bike looks good, though i havent looked at many 27.5/29+ mtb's...

    Bent seat tube? RAD. it aesthetically looks way better than that red thing quoted 8 times here.


    I for one would be fine with the 2.25" tire for 99% of anything i would ever ride... the one percent of the time would be trying to ride through a mud bog instead of riding around it if it was a wet season.... but i also dont ride my mtb much-there arent many trails that im aware of here that are interesting.
    Matt Moore
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