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Thread: The Vuelta is On! (SPOILERS)

  1. #121
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    Default Re: The Vuelta is On! (SPOILERS)

    Quote Originally Posted by j44ke View Post
    I think the Sky approach kind of sucked some of the air out of the Vuelta.
    +1. At some point while watching this year's TdF, and then again while watching the Vuelta, I found myself wishing that the Grand Tours would eliminate teams altogether. Every man for himself. Make GC something that is earned through an individual's sheer athleticism, determination, strategy, and audacity...rather than something that is calculated and then achieved on the backs of lesser [sic] men.

    Well, a girl can dream, right?
     

  2. #122
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    Default Re: The Vuelta is On! (SPOILERS)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Ross View Post
    +1. At some point while watching this year's TdF, and then again while watching the Vuelta, I found myself wishing that the Grand Tours would eliminate teams altogether. Every man for himself. Make GC something that is earned through an individual's sheer athleticism, determination, strategy, and audacity...rather than something that is calculated and then achieved on the backs of lesser [sic] men.

    Well, a girl can dream, right?
    Agreed. I am starting to think that should be rid of the collective time type of scoring and just do the most stage wins takes it.
     

  3. #123
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    Default Re: The Vuelta is On! (SPOILERS)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Ross View Post
    +1. At some point while watching this year's TdF, and then again while watching the Vuelta, I found myself wishing that the Grand Tours would eliminate teams altogether. Every man for himself. Make GC something that is earned through an individual's sheer athleticism, determination, strategy, and audacity...rather than something that is calculated and then achieved on the backs of lesser [sic] men.

    Well, a girl can dream, right?
    I don't think this would work unless you run every stage as a time trial. If you put a couple of hundred runners at the start line of a marathon or a mountain race the fastest runner on the day will win. With cycling, the energy saving from riding in a group, except on a very steep climb, is so large that if you eliminate formal teams riders would inevitably develop informal alliances to assist each other. The result would be much the same as we currently have only it would be less transparent what is going on.
     

  4. #124
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    Default Re: The Vuelta is On! (SPOILERS)

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Jacobs View Post
    if you eliminate formal teams riders would inevitably develop informal alliances to assist each other.
    You say that like it's a bad thing.
     

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    Default Re: The Vuelta is On! (SPOILERS)

    i dislike the way a parcours is looked at and then it's collectively agreed as a 'sprint' stage or a day for the GC....... it can be what anyone wants it to be .......it's not just Sky that rides to a formula......

    Maybe GC teams attacking earlier on might not succeed but the mindfuck that could occur would restrict the complacency that seems all too evident in the Peleoton.........Smaller teams is a step in the right direction.
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    Default Re: The Vuelta is On! (SPOILERS)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Ross View Post
    You say that like it's a bad thing.
    No, I am saying it is the same thing. An alliance is an alliance whether it is caused by a team's ability to pay top riders, jealousy, bribery or nationalism. For sure you would have different alliances if you abolished teams but, apart from the question of how to fund pro-cycling without teams, it would not be "every man for himself" because some men would still be getting more help than others. I agree that smaller teams could make things more interesting.
     

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    Default Re: The Vuelta is On! (SPOILERS)

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Jacobs View Post
    No, I am saying it is the same thing. An alliance is an alliance whether it is caused by a team's ability to pay top riders, jealousy, bribery or nationalism. For sure you would have different alliances if you abolished teams but, apart from the question of how to fund pro-cycling without teams, it would not be "every man for himself" because some men would still be getting more help than others. I agree that smaller teams could make things more interesting.
    I'd favor smaller teams with capped top budget and minimum wage so that teams end up being much more balanced.

    If any of you guys watched races such as Arctic race of Norway it was run with teams of 6 riders. While the race looked a bit more amateurish teams with a strong sprinter couldn't secure a bunch sprint every time and breaks looked harder to control which made for an enjoyable race to watch.
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    Default Re: The Vuelta is On! (SPOILERS)

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Jacobs View Post
    it would not be "every man for himself" because some men would still be getting more help than others.
    Sorry, I don't see why this would be the case. What can an individual -- say, Chris Froome -- offer to any other individual in the peloton that would make different riders want to ally with him day after day after day?

    Is it that he's that much better than everyone else and so everyone wants to ride his wheel in hopes of improving their own time? Presuming that still falls under the guise of a "level playing field" then Froome will still win because he is indeed The Best Man.

    But my contention is that sans teammates, Froome gets killed in a three week grand tour...specifically because he has to prove himself The Best Man every single day.

    That would be a bike race!
     

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    Default Re: The Vuelta is On! (SPOILERS)

    Wonder how many fans sat around and said: This Merckx guy is terrible for cycling!!! He wins all the time and it's unfair to the other riders!!!

    As a fan of cycling, and not particularly a fan of either Froome or Team Sky, I say chapeau on the double.

    Looking forward to worlds and hoping to see a three-peat.

    --Mark

    p.s. TeeJay hanging on for top ten was nice. Yeah, not a podium but nice ride.
     

  10. #130
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    Default Re: The Vuelta is On! (SPOILERS)

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkC View Post
    Wonder how many fans sat around and said: This Merckx guy is terrible for cycling!!! He wins all the time and it's unfair to the other riders!!!
    How many French cycling fans were there then?
    Last edited by j44ke; 6 Days Ago at 05:34 PM.
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  11. #131
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    Default Re: The Vuelta is On! (SPOILERS)

    Quote Originally Posted by j44ke View Post
    How many French cycling fans were there then?
    Well, there was Nello Breton for starters.
     

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    Default Re: The Vuelta is On! (SPOILERS)

    every person in the entire world outside of Belgium thought this.

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkC View Post
    Wonder how many fans sat around and said: This Merckx guy is terrible for cycling!!! He wins all the time and it's unfair to the other riders!!!

    As a fan of cycling, and not particularly a fan of either Froome or Team Sky, I say chapeau on the double.

    Looking forward to worlds and hoping to see a three-peat.

    --Mark

    p.s. TeeJay hanging on for top ten was nice. Yeah, not a podium but nice ride.
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    Default Re: The Vuelta is On! (SPOILERS)

    Quote Originally Posted by woodworker View Post
    Well, there was Nello Breton for starters.
    Hah! Indeed.
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    Default Re: The Vuelta is On! (SPOILERS)

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkC View Post
    Wonder how many fans sat around and said: This Merckx guy is terrible for cycling!!! He wins all the time and it's unfair to the other riders!!!

    As a fan of cycling, and not particularly a fan of either Froome or Team Sky, I say chapeau on the double.

    ...
    Put me in this camp also.

    Perhaps I just have an odd take on things but I can absolutely appreciate when a person or group figures out how to dominate a sport, business, game, whatever - without playing fast and loose with the rules.
    Whether it is the Chicago Bulls with Jordan, Apple, Merckx, Jimi Hendrix, Plácido Domingo, etc, etc.
    Watching a person or a group achieve a level that rises above others is something to be celebrated. It is not as though these people/companies are playing against amateurs. They have risen above the best in the world.
    When people start getting busy trying to pull an athlete/team/company/group down, its usually a sign that something great is going on.

    As Kelly LaBrock used to tell us "Don't hate me because I am beautiful".

    *Obviously one person's opinion
    **Not a Froome fan boy
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    Default Re: The Vuelta is On! (SPOILERS)

    Maybe. I understand a dominating athlete, team etc. Still, nothing is sweeter than when another athlete doesn't get the memo or script and overthrows the king. Froome's day will come as did that of Eddy Merckx in 1975 on Pra Loup at the hands of Bernard Thevenet.
     

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    Default Re: The Vuelta is On! (SPOILERS)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bewheels View Post
    its usually a sign that something great is going on.
    I'll suggest "exceptional" rather than great. Great implies a positive. Not sure that applies in this instance, in this sport.

    (just being a realist--I'll now return to looking forward to my day)
    Dan Fuller, local bicycle enthusiast

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