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Thread: Toe Overlap

  1. #1
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    Default Toe Overlap

    I know its been discussed extensively, but please bear with me. Im asking for help and opinions.
    Im 56 and have been having issues with overlap forever. Of my current fleet the standard geometry Peg Marcelo has a little, but not enough to be a bother. However, my custom geo Cross Speedvagen has enough that it constantly interferes in normal riding conditions. The toe of my Sidis are torn from rubbing with the studded tires and I find myself constantly adjusting to avoid running into my tire.

    My question is whether this is a case of putting the wheels in the right place and the rider having to deal with it, or is there something else going on? Is it intrinsic to the Cross geometry thus something I will encounter across the board?

    Please give me your thoughts.

    Henrique
    un abrazo,
    Henrique Tono

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    Default Re: Toe Overlap

    I think it is combo of your height and 700c wheels

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    Default Re: Toe Overlap

    If you're using it for "regular" riding, toe overlap shouldn't be an issue unless you're doing U-turns in the road at slow speed. Smaller frames have shorter top tubes/shorter Reach specs, so the front wheel is going to overlap your toes some. I'm 5'6" as well, ride bikes with 54cm top tubes, and yes, I experience toe overlap if I perform a sloppy trackstand or am not paying attention when I perform that U-turn mentioned above. I've also broken a few front fenders in my day due to that overlap. I learned.

    It sucks to be short.

    It's not the bike's fault- you picked short parents. Adapt your technique to your limitations.

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    Default Re: Toe Overlap

    I'm 6'2 and have to pedal correctly to negotiate a U-Turn on half my bikes.

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    Default Re: Toe Overlap

    Higher bottom brackets and slacker headtube angles on cross bikes generate a longer front-center (ie, more clearance), but that's often countered by a slightly shorter top tube suitable for cross's more upright position. Fatter tires also reduce clearance compared to your Peg, but the biggest thing is that you're likely negotiating a lot more turns at slower speeds/greater angles on your cross bike, which generates more toe and tire interference. Are you running cranksets of the same length on both rigs?

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    Default Re: Toe Overlap

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronsonic View Post
    I'm 6'2 and have to pedal correctly to negotiate a U-Turn on half my bikes.
    Also 6-2 and don't have toe overlap on any of my current bikes. Did have a fair amount on a Parlee (not built for me), but that also had a very short TT and front-center compared to my other bikes. I would guess the front-center length is more on the half of your bikes without overlap. With BB height, crank length, pedals, and shoes 'normalized,' I'd think that front-center length would tell you if you're going to have a problem or not.

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    Default Re: Toe Overlap

    Generally speaking, most riders under 6'/182cm will probably encounter some overlap and it becomes more pronounced as the top tube shortens. I've even told customers that I can design a bike that handles great or doesn't have overlap - which would you like? Even my own shoes are scuffed, so there's that.
    Steve Hampsten
    www.hampsten.blogspot.com
    "Tighten the wingnuts!"

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    Default Re: Toe Overlap

    "Which would you like?"
    Love that.
    Well put.

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    Default Re: Toe Overlap

    Quote Originally Posted by hampco View Post
    I've even told customers that I can design a bike that handles great or doesn't have overlap - which would you like?
    I've probably told this story before, but when Carl Strong was designing my road bike he asked whether I have any opinions on toe overlap, and my reply was "I would prefer to have no toe overlap...unless achieving that would compromise the handling."

    He built me a bike with toe overlap. :)

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    Default Re: Toe Overlap

    Im 62 and have a good bit of toe overlap on my size L Time Izon. I do have size 47 shoes though 🤔

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    Default Re: Toe Overlap

    yeah, what everyone else said. there's a reason the 650 bikes had a brief period of acceptance for shorter riders, but it didn't take over industry standards. about the only solution I can think of is switch to platform pedals or learn how to pedal on your tiptoes with a forward cleat which brings more issues than it solves, so yeah. maybe a bmx bike for the pits?

    ps I ride a 52 and hardly ever run into the issue even though it's there. maybe geometries that encourage more wheel flop cause more problems. I know from the early days of mountain biking how that slow speed handling varies a fair amount, so there's that. i.e. some geometries mimic bigger bikes just shrunk down vs truly well designed smaller frames that handle more predictably at a given speed. and a road bike that is twitchy at slow speeds will handle like its on rails at 20+. you just have to figure out how to avoid having the foot in that area when turning at slow speed (which is the only place overlap ever occurs)
    am I the only Marvin?

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    Default Re: Toe Overlap

    Quote Originally Posted by thomas View Post
    Also 6-2 and don't have toe overlap on any of my current bikes. Did have a fair amount on a Parlee (not built for me), but that also had a very short TT and front-center compared to my other bikes. I would guess the front-center length is more on the half of your bikes without overlap. With BB height, crank length, pedals, and shoes 'normalized,' I'd think that front-center length would tell you if you're going to have a problem or not.
    I'm old now and my bikes are evolving toward shorter top tubes and my feet move forward on the pedals as well. It's one of those things that has never much bothered me except for one bike that I put fenders on. That has a real bad case, still rideable just requires thinking about u-turns.

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    Default Re: Toe Overlap

    You can design the bicycle to act like one, or you can design it to miss your toe. Most of us inhabit the same 700C world. Once frame sizes are at or below a certain number, if the front end dimensions get in your way you can opt for smaller diameter wheels, find a shorter foot, adjust with different crank lengths, or simply adapt.

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    Default Re: Toe Overlap

    I've got one with no overlap (1986 Peugeot PXR80, a touring bike), and one with ('70s Motobecane Grand Record). Guess which one handles like a station wagon?

    Based on what hampco said above, I'm guessing the Strada Bianca he's building for me will have toe overlap. I'm good with that.

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    Default Re: Toe Overlap

    I like to have the cleats positioned nearer to mid-foot, so that makes matters a bit worse. However, I'm fine with that wee bit of compromise in return for a bike that rides as it should.
    Chikashi Miyamoto

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    Default Re: Toe Overlap

    6"5 and 46 shoes and still scrubbing the tire on some of my bikes (long legs).

    It seems that "weight on the front wheel" is a thing .
    Does it mean that modern geometry gravel bikes with longer TT and shorter stems ride less optimal?

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    Default Re: Toe Overlap

    We sent a road bike out for magazine review two years ago - the journalist was an ex-pro cyclist who complained about toe overlap but simultaneously praised the bike's handling. Found it pretty shocking, but the bike media industry seems to have a very limited understanding of the devices they are reviewing. It feels more recent - but bike media discusses toe overlap as if it's the mark of a poorly designed frame without realizing that all bikes that ride well have it by requirement.

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    Default Re: Toe Overlap

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinned View Post
    but the bike media industry seems to have a very limited understanding of the devices they are reviewing.

    tee shirt

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    Default Re: Toe Overlap

    as an aside (and not to step on/cross the toes of the great designers speaking above) this is also another thing in favor of shorter cranks on smaller bikes. A 165 has way more its place on a 52cm frame than 175s for me, not even close. I've settled back on 170s on my current carbon "race" bike after a couple decades on 165s that still grace the steel Giordana I still ride and like.
    am I the only Marvin?

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    Default Re: Toe Overlap

    Quote Originally Posted by htono View Post

    Please give me your thoughts.

    Henrique
    a lot of carbon forks don't have enough offset.

    -g
    EPOst hoc ergo propter hoc

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