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Thread: Thinking about Lightweight Meilenstein

  1. #81
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    Default Re: Thinking about Lightweight Meilenstein

    well, it means there is no risk . you might as well order them at that price, tell us and hock em later, if need be.
     

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    Default Re: Thinking about Lightweight Meilenstein

    Quote Originally Posted by Lionel View Post
    Hold on. Shitty $4500 wheels become great at $2500 ?
    They’re $5800 at *wholesale* over here. At $2500 I’d buy them just for shits & giggles, then sell them at a profit.

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    Default Re: Thinking about Lightweight Meilenstein

    So that thread made me curious. I borrowed a friends 6.3kg rim braked Focus Izalco Max, currently equipped with Dura-Ace C24 tubulars and headed to the nearest LBS who I knew carried a second hand set of Meilenstein (previous, narrower gens) for back to back testing during a small 2h ride, including a 5km climb I know very well (averaging something like 7.6% I think). We suffer a lot of winds in those afternoon ends.

    First of all these wheels feel fast, very fast. But these wheels are really more climbing wheels than aero wheels, I really didn't like how they fared in side wind. I don't know if that is the rim shape, spoke widths or both but it felt much worse than other deep wheels I tested in the past. Stiffness was fun exiting the hairpins in the climb as well as accelerating when the gradient eased up but looking at my suunto watch I wasn't slower on the second lap with the dura-ace wheelset, the dura-ace just felt quieter, they didn't remind you they were there. In the descent on the LW the bike felt much less composed, especially on the rough stuff in the braking zones, and the braking reminded me of the cheap chinese wheels I used to ride on my last rim braked Festka: not really bad but not really good either. On the smooth road coming back home in the flat the LW were fun, with a specific tone. Problem is the fun slowly disappear when the road quality degrades. Hub spinned well but I can't say they spinned better than the Dura-Ace.

    To conclude, Craig's salesman narrative is great and all but it is a salesman narrative and he is still thinking like a 1997 euro roadie thought back in the days. These wheels indeed feel very fast. In the same way a tubular inflated at 11.5 bar feels way much faster than one inflated at 8bars. In the same way my 1996 Campy shamal felt much faster than my modern carbon wheels, in the same way a Ducati Monster feel faster at 50mph than a Honda Goldwing : they transmit more vibrations to the handlebar and that's about it. It's not that they are bad wheels but they are not coherent. They look like aero wheels but have poor aero and are better in the climbs. Their qualities are great for climbing but they aren't that great descending nor on bad roads. Problem is a climb is inevitably followed by a descent at some point and the roads in the mountain are usually in so so shape. It's hard to say where they would excel, maybe those short british hillclimb races ? I think they are overpriced for what they really offer and I would definitely keep the quieter/nofuss C24 if that Focus was my bike.

    Should Lionel buy them ?

    Surprisingly I think he should. Because feeling fast beats being actually fast when you are not a racer, and Lionel isn't one. Because when he opens a thread asking for advice on something he is not really asking for any advice. His mind is unconsciously made up but he just needs time and entertainment on the journey to acceptance. Because Lionel already owns several wheelsets and can easily swap them depending on the conditions. And at 2500€ he may easily flip them for 2000 or slightly more if he decide to part with them in a year or too. In that context the rent is cheap.
    Last edited by sk_tle; 10-12-2018 at 02:46 AM.
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    Default Re: Thinking about Lightweight Meilenstein

    Quote Originally Posted by Lionel View Post
    I can buy them brand new for $2500
    come on Lionel, that’s just for the front wheel
     

  5. #85
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    Default Re: Thinking about Lightweight Meilenstein

    Quote Originally Posted by sk_tle View Post
    So that thread made me curious. I borrowed a friends 6.3kg rim braked Focus Izalco Max, currently equipped with Dura-Ace C24 tubulars and headed to the nearest LBS who I knew carried a second hand set of Meilenstein (previous, narrower gens) for back to back testing during a small 2h ride, including a 5km climb I know very well (averaging something like 7.6% I think). We suffer a lot of winds in those afternoon ends.

    First of all these wheels feel fast, very fast. But these wheels are really more climbing wheels than aero wheels, I really didn't like how they fared in side wind. I don't know if that is the rim shape, spoke widths or both but it felt much worse than other deep wheels I tested in the past. Stiffness was fun exiting the hairpins in the climb as well as accelerating when the gradient eased up but looking at my suunto watch I wasn't slower on the second lap with the dura-ace wheelset, the dura-ace just felt quieter, they didn't remind you they were there. In the descent on the LW the bike felt much less composed, especially on the rough stuff in the braking zones, and the braking reminded me of the cheap chinese wheels I used to ride on my last rim braked Festka: not really bad but not really good either. On the smooth road coming back home in the flat the LW were fun, with a specific tone. Problem is the fun slowly disappear when the road quality degrades. Hub spinned well but I can't say they spinned better than the Dura-Ace.

    To conclude, Craig's salesman narrative is great and all but it is a salesman narrative and he is still thinking like a 1997 euro roadie thought back in the days. These wheels indeed feel very fast. In the same way a tubular inflated at 11.5 bar feels way much faster than one inflated at 8bars. In the same way my 1996 Campy shamal felt much faster than my modern carbon wheels, in the same way a Ducati Monster feel faster at 50mph than a Honda Goldwing : they transmit more vibrations to the handlebar and that's about it. It's not that they are bad wheels but they are not coherent. They look like aero wheels but have poor aero and are better in the climbs. Their qualities are great for climbing but they aren't that great descending nor on bad roads. Problem is a climb is inevitably followed by a descent at some point and the roads in the mountain are usually in so so shape. It's hard to say where they would excel, maybe those short british hillclimb races ? I think they are overpriced for what they really offer and I would definitely keep the quieter/nofuss C24 if that Focus was my bike.

    Should Lionel buy them ?

    Surprisingly I think he should. Because feeling fast beats being actually fast when you are not a racer, and Lionel isn't one. Because when he opens a thread asking for advice on something he is not really asking for any advice. His mind is unconsciously made up but he just needs time and entertainment on the journey to acceptance. Because Lionel already owns several wheelsets and can easily swap them depending on the conditions. And at 2500€ he may easily flip them for 2000 or slightly more if he decide to part with them in a year or too. In that context the rent is cheap.
    What tubular and brake pads did you use ? Also I think the Focus is not the ideal frame for these as it is super stiff to start with (a friend of mine has one I tried). I would be using the LW on the Spectrum. And yes on side wind and rain for these conditions these wheels are not ideal and probably not an all around wheelset. This is not the wheelset you own when you have only one wheelset for sure. In my memory I cannot remember any wheel feeling as good climbing indeed and on the flats they do not hold speed as well as Bora 50.
     

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    Default Re: Thinking about Lightweight Meilenstein

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul View Post
    come on Lionel, that’s just for the front wheel

    Ah yes let me double check on that :)
     

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    Default Re: Thinking about Lightweight Meilenstein

    Of course many pro races get decided on a finishing climb after hiding in the pack all day. 1 second faster may do it.
     

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    Default Re: Thinking about Lightweight Meilenstein

    Quote Originally Posted by Lionel View Post
    What tubular and brake pads did you use ?
    I must say I have no idea I didn't check. Knowing my friend who is quite patriotic and the problem of brake track bubbling he got on his previous DTSwiss wheelsets they were probably swissstop black prince. I would have spotted if they were swissstop yellow. I'm not saying the LW braking was bad. Just average for the full carbon category.

    Also I think the Focus is not the ideal frame for these as it is super stiff to start with (a friend of mine has one I tried).
    Yes it is pretty much a no compromise climbing bike. The kind of bike you love when you are on form. I must say the low profile Dura-Ace C24 complement it very well, more than the DT RC38 he had previously.
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    Default Re: Thinking about Lightweight Meilenstein

    Quote Originally Posted by sk_tle View Post
    I must say I have no idea I didn't check. Knowing my friend who is quite patriotic and the problem of brake track bubbling he got on his previous DTSwiss wheelsets they were probably swissstop black prince. I would have spotted if they were swissstop yellow. I'm not saying the LW braking was bad. Just average for the full carbon category.



    Yes it is pretty much a no compromise climbing bike. The kind of bike you love when you are on form. I must say the low profile Dura-Ace C24 complement it very well, more than the DT RC38 he had previously.
    If the pads were not changed from the aluminum C24 to the LW, clearly braking is not going to be good. I still expect the LW braking to be not as good as the campy one.
     

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    Default Re: Thinking about Lightweight Meilenstein

    Quote Originally Posted by Lionel View Post
    If the pads were not changed from the aluminum C24 to the LW, clearly braking is not going to be good. I still expect the LW braking to be not as good as the campy one.
    The 24mm DA9000-C24 tubular is full carbon, only the clincher are alu/carbon.
    Last edited by sk_tle; 10-12-2018 at 07:53 AM.
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    Default Re: Thinking about Lightweight Meilenstein

    Quote Originally Posted by sk_tle View Post
    The 24mm DA9000-C24 tubular is full carbon, only the clincher are alu/carbon.
    In my previous LW experience only the LW dedicated gray pads and the campy red pads worked fine on LW.
     

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    Default Re: Thinking about Lightweight Meilenstein

    I'm not necessarily the best judge on the braking part as my road bike use disc brakes and thus all rim braked bike feel a bit weak in that area. Add to that I hoped from my Trail MTB with formula cura 4 quad pistons and 203mm rotor to the rim braked focus and even the dura ace was far from impressive.
    Last edited by sk_tle; 10-12-2018 at 08:55 AM.
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    Default Re: Thinking about Lightweight Meilenstein

    In the case of a little or no-risk purchase, I would most likely pull the trigger and decide for myself.

    Like half of you, probably, I have a box full of saddles I need to post to the classifieds one of these days due to this approach (and maybe an extra set of wheels, as well)...

    CZ basically extended an invitation to SD to demo the damn wheels. And there's always Bike Flights, so maybe a trip to SD isn't necessary.

    Lionel, happy testing. Will the test occur before or after the purchase?

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    Default Re: Thinking about Lightweight Meilenstein

    Quote Originally Posted by TTX1 View Post
    In the case of a little or no-risk purchase, I would most likely pull the trigger and decide for myself.

    Like half of you, probably, I have a box full of saddles I need to post to the classifieds one of these days due to this approach (and maybe an extra set of wheels, as well)...

    CZ basically extended an invitation to SD to demo the damn wheels. And there's always Bike Flights, so maybe a trip to SD isn't necessary.

    Lionel, happy testing. Will the test occur before or after the purchase?
    My Aerotack is showing up soon. It's damn urgent.
     

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    Default Re: Thinking about Lightweight Meilenstein

    Quote Originally Posted by Lionel View Post
    My Aerotack is showing up soon. It's damn urgent.
    Very cool, can't wait to see/hear about it.

    How are you bonding with the 27.5 Seven?!
    laughter has no foreign accent.

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    Default Re: Thinking about Lightweight Meilenstein

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Musgrave View Post
    Very cool, can't wait to see/hear about it.

    How are you bonding with the 27.5 Seven?!
    I just got it an hour ago!
     

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    Default Re: Thinking about Lightweight Meilenstein

    Quote Originally Posted by Lionel View Post
    I just got it an hour ago!
    .

    So still giving it a big hug
     

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    Default Re: Thinking about Lightweight Meilenstein

    When I had my LW I preferred the red Corima cork pads to the grey LW pads on eebrakes. Seems the feel was better to modulate.
     

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    Default Re: Thinking about Lightweight Meilenstein

    I've ordered these babies in 16/20 24mm. They will either go on the Aerotack or (most probably) on the Spectrum.
     

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    Default Re: Thinking about Lightweight Meilenstein

    About time. :)
     

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