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Thread: TdF composite bikes involvement relative to roi?

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    Default Re: TdF composite bikes involvement relative to roi?

    Quote Originally Posted by jerk View Post
    Of course a mediocre carbon bike with working geometry and top shelf parts is pretty awesome and isn't going to win or lose a race for anyone.
    this.

    also, still uncertain why people like factors. hated my o2. not nice crabun.
     

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    Default Re: TdF composite bikes involvement relative to roi?

    Quote Originally Posted by sk_tle View Post
    That is not what I call survive a crash. The formula 1 itself is not driveable after any sizeable crash. The fact the driver cell survive and also absorb some of the impact force is important but there is no such need on a racing bicycle where the rider is ejected from the bike.

    I'm not bashing carbon fibre. The point is if you dismissed any concern on the formula driver safety a formula 1 car could be even lighter than it is now.
    The fact that the chassis was rebuilt into a usable car isn't surviving? Sure it didn't drive off under it's own power but it lived to see another day.

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    Default Re: TdF composite bikes involvement relative to roi?

    Quote Originally Posted by guido View Post
    Seeing Thomas' Pinarello snapped in half after his rather minor crash the other day can't be good for that brand... or carbon bikes in general...
    For the record, this isn't Thomas's bike, he got up and rode away on his own bike after the crash. (note the head unit in place, wouldn't be left on Thomas's bike)
    this is a teammate Moscon's bike that was left on the road as they looked after G, and pushed him on his way.

    Second, the bike wasn't even broken in the crash, according to Robbie Mcewen, it was a car coming upon the bikes laying in the middle of the road drove over it.
    Note the broken spoke(s) in the rear wheel too. It's too bad these myths keep propagating in races, i'm sure they do spread and effect brand reputations.
    People don't seem to care about the truth.

    -g

    EPOst hoc ergo propter hoc

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    Default Re: TdF composite bikes involvement relative to roi?

    Quote Originally Posted by abbeyQ View Post
    The fact that the chassis was rebuilt into a usable car isn't surviving? Sure it didn't drive off under it's own power but it lived to see another day.
    Well that Pinarello snapped can still be rebuilt into a bicycle. I once had a carbon bike repaired, the guy owning the company had collected a Time VXRS frame snapped in 4 or 5 different pieces and was about to repair it. He didn't expect a bike as good as it was before the repair but since he got it for free he found out it would make a cheap lightweight commuter.

    He used to build parts for alinghi boats and some Le Mans racing cars and was the only one I knew willing to repair carbon spokes from lightweight wheels.
    Last edited by sk_tle; 4 Weeks Ago at 03:30 AM.
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    Default Re: TdF composite bikes involvement relative to roi?

    Carbon bikes are strong and stiff in the planes they need to be strong and stiff. In other planes, not at all. About 8 years ago, so well into the ubiquity of carbon bikes, I was on a group ride and we had an unfortunate mass crash at fairly low speed, like 18 MPH or so on a mild uphill false flat. One guy was riding a carbon Fuji, which broke into a number of pieces held together only by the cables. He was uninjured. I have no doubt my Giant would have suffered the same fate. Hit it in the wrong plane and wrong direction and it’ll break easily.
    La Cheeserie!

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    Default Re: TdF composite bikes involvement relative to roi?

    I fondled my first carbon bicycle frame nearly forty years ago, and we are still talking about this shit.
     

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    Default Re: TdF composite bikes involvement relative to roi?

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
    this.

    also, still uncertain why people like factors. hated my o2. not nice crabun.
    Interesting....was it the geometry?, the ride feel?....... I rode one for a short ride and quite liked it, mind you I’m 68 k and not so tall.....
    Real World persona : Andy Corso

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    Default Re: TdF composite bikes involvement relative to roi?

    Quote Originally Posted by WFSTEKL View Post
    I fondled my first carbon bicycle frame nearly forty years ago, and we are still talking about this shit.
    I think it's because production carbon bikes are seen as a disposable commodity rather than as a prized possession. They lack the mystique of handmade metal bikes, deservedly or not.
    La Cheeserie!

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    Default Re: TdF composite bikes involvement relative to roi?

    Since the bike industry became a "new product industry" the product cycle is very short. In my view, the anticipated life-or at least as long as it is considered "relevant"-is incredibly short relative to the cost. As you say, it has entered the realm of disposable commodity. I think the people who don't care for that sort of thing are a major customer source for the custom side of things and most of that is comprised of builders of steel frames.
    "Humilis humilibus...Inflectans arroganibus....."

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    Default Re: TdF composite bikes involvement relative to roi?

    Quote Originally Posted by GrantM View Post
    Second, the bike wasn't even broken in the crash, according to Robbie Mcewen, it was a car coming upon the bikes laying in the middle of the road drove over it.
    Note the broken spoke(s) in the rear wheel too. It's too bad these myths keep propagating in races, i'm sure they do spread and effect brand reputations.
    People don't seem to care about the truth.
    ]
    Not according to the thread on WW and this:
     

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    Default Re: TdF composite bikes involvement relative to roi?

    Quote Originally Posted by corko View Post
    Interesting....was it the geometry?, the ride feel?....... I rode one for a short ride and quite liked it, mind you I’m 68 k and not so tall.....
    geo was short/high, very 90s crit bike, without a lot of stiffness. it likes to deflect and push out in corners/descents. i could never get comfortable carving a descent on it. climbs okay, but i'd take a new tarmac, emonda, or f12 any day of the week over it if i were hunting a chichi race bike.

    it was also way over claimed weight. just kinda generica carbon - it's an okay bike, not at the prices they ask.

    Quote Originally Posted by jerk
    pinascrella lovefest
    so i mean...if the x-light is really that light, why is skineos running meilensteins over shimano hoops? they certainly aren't better at anything save weight. jme that pinarello frames tend to come in at...portly tonnages. doesn't keep them from winning, though.
     

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    Default Re: TdF composite bikes involvement relative to roi?

    Quote Originally Posted by El Chaba View Post
    Since the bike industry became a "new product industry" the product cycle is very short. In my view, the anticipated life-or at least as long as it is considered "relevant"-is incredibly short relative to the cost. As you say, it has entered the realm of disposable commodity. I think the people who don't care for that sort of thing are a major customer source for the custom side of things and most of that is comprised of builders of steel frames.
    I do not understand this myth at all.

    1. Steel frames fail in crashes.... I have been racing since the eighties and the damage I have seen...
    2. Steel can fail catastrophically. Especially steel forks... I have seen terrible things in my day (indeed, I would say things have gotten MUCH better)
    3. Repairing steel is not a easy as it is made out to be and seldom worth your while. It all depends on the brand of course (A Sachs is always worth it), but I have crashed a Rih (not too shabby a brand...)where the down-tube and top-tube needed replacing. It was too expensive to rebuild according to Van der Kaaij, so he sold (and built) me a new one.
    4. high end Steel is very delicate, I have dented more than one toptube.
    5. Give me a good glue/weld robot over mass produced hand soldered steel. If Pete the Builder is on his 8th frame of the day and is goddamn tired, he can easily overheat the joint. People like Richard are artisans who can take the time to build a fantastic product, but the notion that a human builder is simply superior than a good robot is absurd. It's the nature of a good robot to do welds/glue jobs end after end with established tolerances.
    6. Also, the seventy-eighties with the fantastic engraved cranks and bars that broke... (let's not contemplate French parts of that era which were downright crap, like Lyotard pedals standard coming with off centre thread...)

    Steel, Carbon, Alloy... all can fail, all can be used to build a great bike. We are in luck, IMHO frames and components gotten a lot better.
    Support your local bike shop.

  13. #33
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    Default Re: TdF composite bikes involvement relative to roi?

    Quote Originally Posted by rabo View Post
    Not according to the thread on WW and this:
    Dunno, that video doesn't show anything.

    GCN is also reporting the car broke it. (18:30)

    EPOst hoc ergo propter hoc

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    Default Re: TdF composite bikes involvement relative to roi?

    Quote Originally Posted by Loknor View Post
    I do not understand this myth at all.

    1. Steel frames fail in crashes.... I have been racing since the eighties and the damage I have seen...
    2. Steel can fail catastrophically. Especially steel forks... I have seen terrible things in my day (indeed, I would say things have gotten MUCH better)
    3. Repairing steel is not a easy as it is made out to be and seldom worth your while. It all depends on the brand of course (A Sachs is always worth it), but I have crashed a Rih (not too shabby a brand...)where the down-tube and top-tube needed replacing. It was too expensive to rebuild according to Van der Kaaij, so he sold (and built) me a new one.
    4. high end Steel is very delicate, I have dented more than one toptube.
    5. Give me a good glue/weld robot over mass produced hand soldered steel. If Pete the Builder is on his 8th frame of the day and is goddamn tired, he can easily overheat the joint. People like Richard are artisans who can take the time to build a fantastic product, but the notion that a human builder is simply superior than a good robot is absurd. It's the nature of a good robot to do welds/glue jobs end after end with established tolerances.
    6. Also, the seventy-eighties with the fantastic engraved cranks and bars that broke... (let's not contemplate French parts of that era which were downright crap, like Lyotard pedals standard coming with off centre thread...)

    Steel, Carbon, Alloy... all can fail, all can be used to build a great bike. We are in luck, IMHO frames and components gotten a lot better.
    Your access to the Rivendell comments section has been blocked by this.
     

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    Default Re: TdF composite bikes involvement relative to roi?

    Quote Originally Posted by Loknor View Post
    I do not understand this myth at all.

    1. Steel frames fail in crashes.... I have been racing since the eighties and the damage I have seen...
    2. Steel can fail catastrophically. Especially steel forks... I have seen terrible things in my day (indeed, I would say things have gotten MUCH better)
    3. Repairing steel is not a easy as it is made out to be and seldom worth your while. It all depends on the brand of course (A Sachs is always worth it), but I have crashed a Rih (not too shabby a brand...)where the down-tube and top-tube needed replacing. It was too expensive to rebuild according to Van der Kaaij, so he sold (and built) me a new one.
    4. high end Steel is very delicate, I have dented more than one toptube.
    5. Give me a good glue/weld robot over mass produced hand soldered steel. If Pete the Builder is on his 8th frame of the day and is goddamn tired, he can easily overheat the joint. People like Richard are artisans who can take the time to build a fantastic product, but the notion that a human builder is simply superior than a good robot is absurd. It's the nature of a good robot to do welds/glue jobs end after end with established tolerances.
    6. Also, the seventy-eighties with the fantastic engraved cranks and bars that broke... (let's not contemplate French parts of that era which were downright crap, like Lyotard pedals standard coming with off centre thread...)

    Steel, Carbon, Alloy... all can fail, all can be used to build a great bike. We are in luck, IMHO frames and components gotten a lot better.
    I was referring only to the lifespan that the bike was "current" and not how long it may or may not last in use.
    "Humilis humilibus...Inflectans arroganibus....."

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    Default Re: TdF composite bikes involvement relative to roi?

    Comparing 70s 80s 90s production steel to current custom steel is a pointless discussion. Even current production steel doesn't really fit into the discussion........on this forum anyway. Mid tier production steel and carbon (any material) is going to have pros and cons. Comparing the current top end carbon and custom/boutique steel are the only data points that are worth.......barely discussing. They are different beasts and come about by different motives and desired outcomes. As Rich says ATMO.
    __________________________________________

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