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Thread: Sram Rival eTap Now Available

  1. #61
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    Default Re: Sram Rival eTap Now Available

    Quote Originally Posted by Saab2000 View Post
    If you’re being serious you’re doing something wrong.

    My current Dura Ace equipped bikes haven’t needed adjustments in years. Maybe a 1/16th of a turn here and there. My Campagnolo bikes were the same.

    Good mechanical stuff sure up properly is not problematic. I’m not a retrogrouch at all on this but as an owner of electronic shifting and mechanical I don’t see a huge difference either way. Honest.
    Seconded. Two weeks?? Holy cow...

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    Default Re: Sram Rival eTap Now Available

    I'll take the Pepsi Challenge any day: A 1 year old unmaintained bike with electric shifting and hydro brakes is working WAY better than a 1 year old mechanical shifting / rim brake bike even if it had "a 1/16th of a turn here and there" over the year.

    Plus if you think your mechanical shifting is good then you need to try a modern top-tier electric groupset. Shift quality and speed is simply unmatched and it's not affected by weather, mud, dust, etc etc.

    If you want to have a parallel discussion about nostalgia and a craving for a simpler life that's fine but don't mix up two.

  3. #63
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    Default Re: Sram Rival eTap Now Available

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Ross View Post
    "Years"?!?! LOL! Give me two weeks, I can apparently kill any mechanical shifting system in 300 miles or less.

    But I suspect we may have very different interpretations of what the word "perfectly" means in this context.
    Sure.

    I don't put huge miles on my bikes these days, but last year was about 5,500 mi or so split between two bikes. One Shimano (10s downtube and d-a7800, one 11s Sram Force).

    The Shimano cable-actuated system has >25,000miles on it. I have changed chains, the compact outer chainring, cassettes, the pulleys, and a rear wheel, among other consumables. I had to adjust the rear cable length by about a quarter turn after initial bed-in. It hasn't frayed yet either.

    The SRAM setup was unintuitive to a coelacanth like me-i had to RTFM. Once I did, it made sense and I was able to set it up correctly, and about 2,500 mi of uneventful and accurate shifting ensued. 12-29 Campagnolo cassettes seem to be the quietest and happily match the majority of my modern wheels. I will probably recable it out of an abundance of caution before this summer and exuberant mileage season for a fenderless bike, but maybe not. It shifts smoothly and hasn't been trouble at all.

    Ymmv.

    Electronically controlled shifting is a huge boon to those with limited mobility or strength in their hands, and the auto-trim front derailleur is a dream since the dawn of the single-cable spring-loaded front derailleur design. Shift reliability or durability with Di2 etc isn't a major differentiator in my opinion and limited experience with the technology.

    Best Regards,
    Will
    William M. deRosset
    Fort Collins CO USA

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    Default Re: Sram Rival eTap Now Available

    Quote Originally Posted by Tristan View Post
    Plus if you think your mechanical shifting is good then you need to try a modern top-tier electric groupset. Shift quality and speed is simply unmatched and it's not affected by weather, mud, dust, etc etc.
    The thing is I have. But at dura-ace and red axs level so can't speak about that specific iteration. And Sram AXS wasn't particularly fast. Actually it felt much slower than mechanical.

    As for weather while I admit mud can be an issue, dust really? My gravel bikes get sandy and dusty every ride. The only thing it affects is noise. But it is not something that can be solved with e-shifting.

    I am not retrogrouch, I think e-shifting solve some problem (cable routing) and introduce nice features like satellite blips/shifters where I would want them. It is exactly why I would typically pass on the Rival AXS as it introduce constraint (having to charge a battery every n days). I already struggle to manage the charging of my lights and sportwatchs but I can still say fuck it and leave them home. If I have to go electronic, I want a system which last months with a battery charge, and it needs to allow me to put shifters at the top of the handlebars like di2 does.
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    Default Re: Sram Rival eTap Now Available

    Re: shifting speed. I think this is a non issue. Regardless of the system, you have to be amazed at how quick our shifting is in 2021. I am always amazed a the speed those Sram MTB drivetrains that can shift from a lower cog to the 42 or 50t cog at the twist of my gripshift remote. It may eventually do so with a concerning crunchy sound when I am struggling in a ramp but that chain will always ramp up to the last cog in barely a full cog rotation without skipping.
    --
    T h o m a s

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    Default Re: Sram Rival eTap Now Available

    Quote Originally Posted by Tristan View Post
    I'll take the Pepsi Challenge any day: A 1 year old unmaintained bike with electric shifting and hydro brakes is working WAY better than a 1 year old mechanical shifting / rim brake bike even if it had "a 1/16th of a turn here and there" over the year.

    Plus if you think your mechanical shifting is good then you need to try a modern top-tier electric groupset. Shift quality and speed is simply unmatched and it's not affected by weather, mud, dust, etc etc.

    If you want to have a parallel discussion about nostalgia and a craving for a simpler life that's fine but don't mix up two.
    It’s simple for me: The benefits don’t even come close to outweighing the cost. AU$5k+ for a SRAM Red AXS groupset? No. Fucken. Way. That’s my *entire* Hampsten build; and beep-beep-boop-boop gears ain’t gonna make that a better bike.

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    Default Re: Sram Rival eTap Now Available

    Quote Originally Posted by Tristan View Post
    I'll take the Pepsi Challenge any day: A 1 year old unmaintained bike with electric shifting and hydro brakes is working WAY better than a 1 year old mechanical shifting / rim brake bike even if it had "a 1/16th of a turn here and there" over the year.

    Plus if you think your mechanical shifting is good then you need to try a modern top-tier electric groupset. Shift quality and speed is simply unmatched and it's not affected by weather, mud, dust, etc etc.

    If you want to have a parallel discussion about nostalgia and a craving for a simpler life that's fine but don't mix up two.
    I have both. Dura Ace mechanical and GRX Di2. Both work as advertised. In other words, they work extremely well.

    I'm not a hater or a nostalgia guy here. I just don't think the Di2 bike represents an eye opening revolution in shifting speed or precision. I will grant that it never works less than perfectly. But neither do my mechanical bikes. And I honestly don't know the last time I did this 1/16th of a turn adjustment on my DA-equipped bikes.

    I'm not an electronic skeptic except to point out that nothing I've seen says they're all that much better in my eyes.

    It's likely that my next bike will be electronic. I can certainly see the setup advantages (with wireless - the installation and setup of my E-Tube GRX was a bad joke involving warranty issues and weeks of delays getting it on the road) and I also know that's the way the market and the technology is moving. But it's not likely to be anytime soon because top shelf bike stuff is becoming unaffordable.
    Last edited by Saab2000; 2 Weeks Ago at 08:27 AM.
    La Cheeserie!

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    Default Re: Sram Rival eTap Now Available

    Quote Originally Posted by Tristan View Post

    Plus if you think your mechanical shifting is good then you need to try a modern top-tier electric groupset. Shift quality and speed is simply unmatched and it's not affected by weather, mud, dust, etc etc.

    If you want to have a parallel discussion about nostalgia and a craving for a simpler life that's fine but don't mix up two.
    Well my direct experience with Force eTap AXS says this just isn’t true. It shifts significantly slower than Record and Chorus mechanical. Whether this matters is a personal question. I totally agree that electronic derailleurs are easier to maintain - obviously avoiding cable-related tuning and cleaning. But again, they are a lot more expensive to replace.

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    Default Re: Sram Rival eTap Now Available

    If anyone honestly thinks pushing the price of “halo product” up by more than a thousand dollars is benefiting anyone except a few product managers, please explain.

    The meteoric rise in the “highest end” of stock bikes gives brands more headroom to spec garbage on bikes at prices that are actually reasonable, and skimp on reasonable parts for flash parts.

    When the “trickle down” is still very, very, very expensive, it’s not trickle down- it’s a concerted effort to push price points up across the board.

    In SRAM’s case, the haptics and tactile feedback of e-shifting is sub par, the shifting undoubtedly “feels slow” and the gear range is literally unusable with the 10t cog...

  10. #70
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    Default Re: Sram Rival eTap Now Available

    Quote Originally Posted by suspectdevice View Post
    If anyone honestly thinks pushing the price of “halo product” up by more than a thousand dollars is benefiting anyone except a few product managers, please explain.

    The meteoric rise in the “highest end” of stock bikes gives brands more headroom to spec garbage on bikes at prices that are actually reasonable, and skimp on reasonable parts for flash parts.

    When the “trickle down” is still very, very, very expensive, it’s not trickle down- it’s a concerted effort to push price points up across the board.

    In SRAM’s case, the haptics and tactile feedback of e-shifting is sub par, the shifting undoubtedly “feels slow” and the gear range is literally unusable with the 10t cog...
    Sounds like business. Selling stuff, making money, making a profit.

    Of course, whether it is supportable is another thing.
    Last edited by j44ke; 2 Weeks Ago at 11:53 AM.

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    Default Re: Sram Rival eTap Now Available

    Of all the things I complain about coming back from a ride, my cheap ass shifting setup is not one of them.
    Stuff is just too good these days.

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    Default Re: Sram Rival eTap Now Available

    We'll look back to these days in the future and ask ourselves how the fuck did we allow to ruin the holy simplicity of cycling by adding way too much nonsense for the sake of technology, which will make us slaves of our own choices. We have already done it with too many things (cars, food, music, amazon, alexa, google, etc).

    Anyone complaining about shifting speed must certainly be in some parallel dimension where a tenth of a second makes a ride a completely different experience. On the other hand, I've had enough experiences with people getting their holidays in the Pyrenees ruined just because wet weather and bumpy roads didn't get well enough with their electronic shifting systems.

    Finally, we all talk big words of sustainability, of making a better world, all those grandiose speechs which we inmediately make useless by keep adding more and more electronic garbage (batteries, circuits, etc) which we can't bother to consider where they end up (have a ToxicCity view), and the continuous compulsive consumption with new everythings every two years.

    So, make your choices, but please let's all be honest and cut all the nonsense justifications like better shifting performance or the like. It's pure and simple love for cable free bikes, and the childish awe for buttons and lights. All the rest is noise

    Not I'm against anything, everybody is free to make their pick, I'm not saying everybody should focus on the simple joys of cycling, we're all free to find happiness in our own worlds, I'm just against first world wealthy world problems affecting the whole industry, just because some "need" to look cool without cables and their smartphones connected to the levers, the rest of cycling world should not be prived of quality simple (mechanical) options.
    I just wish in some years time it won't be as impossible to find a good value quality mechanical groupset as it's to find a manual window lever operated vehicle without damn touch screens to turn the radio on. But as I said, we'll look back wondering how did we allow all this to happen, then being already too late.

  13. #73
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    Default Re: Sram Rival eTap Now Available

    Re: future proofing

    I have two 14-28 6s regina cx freewheels, a pat84 nr rear derailleur with rally cage plates, and 100' of sedis chain.

    Sitting in cosmoline waiting for the end times.

    (Rubber perishes faster than aluminum and tool steel; my bikes will become useless due to tubular tire shortages long before I can wear out the five ir six drivetrain generations I have in the garage)


    6s (a pile of stuff as it turns out, not just the stuff vitrified in preservatives), 7s, 8s (that indexes) 9s in a box, several Campag 10s and a giant pile of campag 10s spline wheels; 10s Shimano and a few wheels, 11s SRAM Force and Shimano Ultegra (that play flawlessly with Campag cassettes). I will have to buy chains at some point, but i can ride happily 10,000 miles a year until I die and not wear this gear out. I aim to prove myself wrong, but we will see.

    So I can still get replacement parts for all of it, esp the pre-indexing stuff. This isn't gear that will leave you on the road. Tires turn into the limiting factor.

    Best Regards,

    Will
    William M. deRosset
    Fort Collins CO USA

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    Default Re: Sram Rival eTap Now Available

    I have put plenty of miles on most every one of Shimano and Sram's groups over the last few years (humble brag - put in about 12k miles per year). I have come to the conclusion that nobody in this ham and egger group (myself included) *needs* anything better than Shimano 105 7000. And I would (not) put my money where my mouth is. Meaning I just can't see paying for a bike with more 105 when given the choice.

    Scratch that, if you want to go crazy on one bike, once in your life, do it. It is fun. Buy the top of the line. But you probably have other bikes as well, and just get 105 on those. You are pissing your money away if you spend any more (imho).

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    Default Re: Sram Rival eTap Now Available

    Quote Originally Posted by KonaSS View Post
    I have come to the conclusion that nobody in this ham and egger group (myself included) *needs* anything better than Shimano 105 7000. And I would (not) put my money where my mouth is.
    My brother is not much of a rider but his kids got him a Specialized Allez with Shimano 105. A couple of years ago I was visiting and rode it for a few days. I was amazed how well it shifted and braked. I wanted to try it with a set of Campy Boras and Vittoria Corsa tires. It's not my Hampsten Carbonissimo + eTap+ Bora but it's not roughing it to have to put up with 105. I'll say the same about SRAM. The first time I rode a Rival mechanical group I couldn't tell the difference between that and my Red mechanical.

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    Default Re: Sram Rival eTap Now Available

    When I first saw some articles about this SRAM groupset I actually thought I could buy the shifters and derailleurs and chop up a mish mash of a bike, then I saw disc only and I thought SRAM can go f...k it's self.

    I agree about Shimano 105 too, I use Campagnolo currently but would happily ride that groupset...
    Riding has to be fun, and part of the fun has to be that you’re not worried about having too much technology on your bike. - Tom Ritchey

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    Default Re: Sram Rival eTap Now Available

    Quote Originally Posted by Sascha Roszak View Post

    I agree about Shimano 105 too, I use Campagnolo currently but would happily ride that groupset...
    I have mechanical 105 (5800) on two bikes and it is stunning how good it is for the price. I also have Dura Ace and they’re virtually indistinguishable from each other on the road. DA looks far nicer and is perhaps minutely quicker and more precise but the difference is very small indeed.
    La Cheeserie!

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    Default Re: Sram Rival eTap Now Available

    I'm interested to see what the new 12 speed 105 will look like? It might be a cheap alternative for me to dip my toes back in again with Shimano in the future?
    Riding has to be fun, and part of the fun has to be that you’re not worried about having too much technology on your bike. - Tom Ritchey

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