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Thread: Road shoes with a wide toe box?

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    Default Re: Road shoes with a wide toe box?

    To Giordana, half of the road shoes well sell, and stock is wides. From Lake, Specialized, Fizik, and Bont. I do not if the population is changing. Or are shoes shrinking?

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    Default Re: Road shoes with a wide toe box?

    Or are people just realizing that they don't want uncomfortable shoes and buying ones that fit now that there are options?

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    Default Re: Road shoes with a wide toe box?

    Quote Originally Posted by DBordewisch View Post
    To Giordana, half of the road shoes well sell, and stock is wides. From Lake, Specialized, Fizik, and Bont. I do not if the population is changing. Or are shoes shrinking?
    but as is noted, some (many?) of the wides are just the same outsole as the non-wide but with more volume in the upper, so not a true wide, and I think that goes with the move towards upper materials that have zero stretch, but for sure in my mind, the move towards flatter, stiffer soles and a more rearward cleat allow/contribute to flattening/widening of the foot--and in itself that is not necessarily a bad thing--witness Birkenstock/Altra/Bont foot healthy shoes.
    am I the only Marvin?

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    Default Re: Road shoes with a wide toe box?

    Quote Originally Posted by giordana93 View Post
    I am starting to think it's me and so am trying to find a good and repeatable arch support strategy.
    Thread drift...but I am interested to hear more about what you have tried, and also what has worked.

    As with some others here, my feet have 'spread out' in both length and width over the past few years. I've been sizing up shoes to compensate, but I wonder if some arch support might save me from buying new shoes so often.

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    Default Re: Road shoes with a wide toe box?

    Quote Originally Posted by darkmother View Post
    Thread drift...but I am interested to hear more about what you have tried, and also what has worked.

    As with some others here, my feet have 'spread out' in both length and width over the past few years. I've been sizing up shoes to compensate, but I wonder if some arch support might save me from buying new shoes so often.
    I use G8 insoles - they have arches which are adjustable in height and position. Worth a look in my opinion.

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    Default Re: Road shoes with a wide toe box?

    Quote Originally Posted by darkmother View Post
    Thread drift...but I am interested to hear more about what you have tried, and also what has worked.

    As with some others here, my feet have 'spread out' in both length and width over the past few years. I've been sizing up shoes to compensate, but I wonder if some arch support might save me from buying new shoes so often.
    honestly, it has been almost as frustrating as shoes in that every genuine arch support out there has a different profile and not necessarily optimized for cycling and within that you have the whole forward/backward cleat position changing pressure points. Like shoes, you don't know if it will work ahead of time, and damned if the recommended ones aren't expensive. The well-liked G8's are over $100 and the other standard recommendations hover around 50. I'm currently back using some ancient Petersen Power Beds from the 90s that were pretty aggressive in the arch but somehow not a deep heel cup if that makes any sense. I've flip-flopped between almost no support (because back in the day there was little/none, although that was back with those high heeled jobbers that were not usually drilled for rearward cleats). People like Steve Hogg argue for heavy support and he has a few favorite brands but being from Australia his brands seem less available in North America.
    I've read, and it makes sense, that sellers of Superfeet would recommend in-store trial of different sizes because someone with short toes in say a 9, has an arch profile of someone with a 10 or 11 (which would be his size with normal toes...) So I'd love to be able to try a few brands in high and medium variants across a couple of size runs, but that is a couple hundred. I think that's why some people say it's cheaper to fork out the bucks for custom orthotics. I'm still looking for currently available solutions (the Petersens are out of production years ago). What I do know is the following recommended brands: Icebug, Sida, the Specialized blue and red ones; Superfeet in the hockey or yellow or black or blue or green. It's one of those things too where you probably should allow a good adapting period and not switch willy nilly because it takes time for the whole chain from toes to hips to adjust. But I would definitely recommend trying something more than the stock cardboard/foam crap.
    am I the only Marvin?

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    Default Re: Road shoes with a wide toe box?

    Quote Originally Posted by giordana93 View Post
    honestly, it has been almost as frustrating as shoes in that every genuine arch support out there has a different profile and not necessarily optimized for cycling and within that you have the whole forward/backward cleat position changing pressure points. Like shoes, you don't know if it will work ahead of time, and damned if the recommended ones aren't expensive. The well-liked G8's are over $100 and the other standard recommendations hover around 50. I'm currently back using some ancient Petersen Power Beds from the 90s that were pretty aggressive in the arch but somehow not a deep heel cup if that makes any sense. I've flip-flopped between almost no support (because back in the day there was little/none, although that was back with those high heeled jobbers that were not usually drilled for rearward cleats). People like Steve Hogg argue for heavy support and he has a few favorite brands but being from Australia his brands seem less available in North America.
    I've read, and it makes sense, that sellers of Superfeet would recommend in-store trial of different sizes because someone with short toes in say a 9, has an arch profile of someone with a 10 or 11 (which would be his size with normal toes...) So I'd love to be able to try a few brands in high and medium variants across a couple of size runs, but that is a couple hundred. I think that's why some people say it's cheaper to fork out the bucks for custom orthotics. I'm still looking for currently available solutions (the Petersens are out of production years ago). What I do know is the following recommended brands: Icebug, Sida, the Specialized blue and red ones; Superfeet in the hockey or yellow or black or blue or green. It's one of those things too where you probably should allow a good adapting period and not switch willy nilly because it takes time for the whole chain from toes to hips to adjust. But I would definitely recommend trying something more than the stock cardboard/foam crap.
    Agreed. Insoles can change a cycling shoe fit entirely for the better.

    Most of the Superfeet I've tried elevate my heel too much for cycling shoes. They are in my hiking boots, LLBean boots and Muck boots. Green or the newer Trailblazer hiking insoles.

    There was a brand called eeSoles I think? That had both an arch, an arch insert and a metatarsal insert that stuck to the underside of the insole with velcro. Those were my go-to and would still be except that they aren't around any longer. So then I was using the Giro Supernatural insoles and now those don't appear to be available any longer. I'll look at some of the currently available ones above.
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    Default Re: Road shoes with a wide toe box?

    Quote Originally Posted by j44ke View Post
    Agreed. Insoles can change a cycling shoe fit entirely for the better.

    Most of the Superfeet I've tried elevate my heel too much for cycling shoes. They are in my hiking boots, LLBean boots and Muck boots. Green or the newer Trailblazer hiking insoles.

    There was a brand called eeSoles I think? That had both an arch, an arch insert and a metatarsal insert that stuck to the underside of the insole with velcro. Those were my go-to and would still be except that they aren't around any longer. So then I was using the Giro Supernatural insoles and now those don't appear to be available any longer. I'll look at some of the currently available ones above.
    I think e-soles were the follow up company of Bill Peterson (whose name I misspelled in my previous post) who made the powerbeds or whatever I use. The G8s mentioned above have a moveable arch but no metatarsal bump. Specialized have a small almost imperceptible meta bump. Icebugs have a bump. It's weird how my Petersons feel waay too intrusive if I haven't used them in a while but now feel entirely natural, so there is a decently long break in and necessary cleat adaptation. I know that Steve Hogg used to push more for cleat shimming but now is adamant about getting the most aggressive arch support one can tolerate (more complex than that, but that's gist). It definitely helps with foot stability and in the kinetic chain that proceeds from that but I think it also magnifies other issues because the slop in the foot/ankle area is taken out, so it is almost like a level of float to the system has been removed and any issues at hip or knee level is exposed. Overall I think that is for the better but it makes me more acutely aware of cleat placement, both fore/aft and rotational.
    am I the only Marvin?

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    Default Re: Road shoes with a wide toe box?

    Quote Originally Posted by giordana93 View Post
    I know that Steve Hogg used to push more for cleat shimming but now is adamant about getting the most aggressive arch support one can tolerate (more complex than that, but that's gist). It definitely helps with foot stability and in the kinetic chain that proceeds from that but I think it also magnifies other issues because the slop in the foot/ankle area is taken out, so it is almost like a level of float to the system has been removed and any issues at hip or knee level is exposed. Overall I think that is for the better but it makes me more acutely aware of cleat placement, both fore/aft and rotational.
    The G8 instructions suggest similar in that they say something along the lines of going as high on the support as you can tolerate, and as far in and forward as you can; then, when that becomes acceptable, move it forward again and/or go higher if you can.

    My issue with aggressive arch support - and I have a fairly high arch, so I need a fair bit of support anyway - is that if the foot isn't flexible/supple enough to 'make room' for the aggressive support (or takes time to achieve that) and the shoe isn't firm enough to hold the foot over the aggressive support, the foot will tilt; and that can cause other issues.

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    Default Re: Road shoes with a wide toe box?

    Fizik sent an email today - their 'Vento Infinito 2' are now available in the Carbon and the Knit version in a wide fit:

    Fizik wide shoe range

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    Default Re: Road shoes with a wide toe box?

    On the subject of insoles, has anyone tried Aline. I recently spoke to Gordon Hay one of the creators of Aline. He advised against insoles with high arches that essentially fill the void between your arch and the insole. He says your arch needs to have ability to flex and move around, not be in a single position like a high arch support would put you. I donít know, this seems to be counter to everything I have heard and read about arch support for cycling as well as bike fitters Iíve spoken with. Does anyone have experience with Aline or comments on not having high arch support for high arches.
    Thanks,
    Quattro

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    Default Re: Road shoes with a wide toe box?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quattro View Post
    On the subject of insoles, has anyone tried Aline. I recently spoke to Gordon Hay one of the creators of Aline. He advised against insoles with high arches that essentially fill the void between your arch and the insole. He says your arch needs to have ability to flex and move around, not be in a single position like a high arch support would put you. I don’t know, this seems to be counter to everything I have heard and read about arch support for cycling as well as bike fitters I’ve spoken with. Does anyone have experience with Aline or comments on not having high arch support for high arches.
    Paraphrasing a quote I read recently, just because we've always done it a particular way, doesn't mean that way ir right or the only solution. Or something like that.

    Aline seems to be designed around the premise that the foot should be allowed to move naturally; and that doing so can help with ankle, knee and hip alignment. I can buy into that.

    Who is 'right' is another matter entirely. It feels good to have an arch support under power and feel like your foot is being held in place, but it might also feel good to allow your foot to do what it wants to do. Biomechanically, I have no idea which is, or should be, better - I'm in the camp of "don't knock it 'til you've tried it" on this one.

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    Default Re: Road shoes with a wide toe box?

    my understanding is that the G8 insole has a flex/rebound nature to it. (and that it wears out/needs to be replaced). I'm with Rich in the "more research is needed" camp. In the "foot stability" department, I can see both a static and dynamic support working. To address the falling arch (especially with age and stomping on stupid stiff shoes) I would lean more to decent/aggressive support. Steve Hogg puts supports into two camps: real strong/solid supports and those that just trigger your bio-feedback loop (he's big into this idea of what he calls proprioceptive feedback; it's a little nebulous and at times kooky, but much of his other stuff is well-reasoned, so why not?)
    am I the only Marvin?

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    Default Re: Road shoes with a wide toe box?

    Uhhh - pinging this thread to see if anyone has had success with a true medical orthotic in a cycling shoe. I finally caved and allowed my DPM to cast and have custom orthotics made... and the bastard was right - they've calmed my tendinitis down to nothing. I've gone ahead and ordered a second pair specifically for road cycling (https://www.kevinrootmedical.com/pag...d-road-cycling) but I'm almost certain that new shoes will be in order. I'm finding that my Lake CX237s are far, far too narrow at the ball and can't even imagine how tight they'll be with an orthotic. I do have a fit scheduled with John at Whole Athlete around the end of October, and I fully expect he'll put me in a pair of moulded Bonts, but I'd like to still be out and riding between now and then.

    Really - I had no idea how badly my feet were messing with me until I did the orthotics. Bad tendinitis and a tight piriformis that was causing sciatic pain and weakness... both largely improving after f'ing insoles.

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    Default Re: Road shoes with a wide toe box?

    That is cool to hear about the insoles helping so much. Looks like custom shoes might be next though.

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    Default Re: Road shoes with a wide toe box?

    Quote Originally Posted by rec head View Post
    That is cool to hear about the insoles helping so much. Looks like custom shoes might be next though.
    Hopefully not full custom... I'd much rather have the orthotics done domestically and not have to go back and forth with full customs.

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    Default Re: Road shoes with a wide toe box?

    How much does Kevin Root charge for his cycling insoles?

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    Default Re: Road shoes with a wide toe box?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quattro View Post
    How much does Kevin Root charge for his cycling insoles?
    It's a medical lab, so you need to go through a physician's office (castings and fitment), but I think the first set was a little over $400 and the second set was around $300.

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    Default Re: Road shoes with a wide toe box?

    Am two plus weeks into the G8 route, 10+rides-579 miles. Am in position 2 of 5 on the arch support, they are in the neutral position. Using the 5mm Metdomes as well, and after a couple of trial fittings/placement of these, have them dialed in now, don’t even notice ‘em now. My on again/off again hotfoot has totally subsided, but do need some longer rides (4-6 hrs) to be totally sure. Using them in Lake CX 238’s in a 45 wide-using spd pedals. Have some road 237’s to try them in, but the bike is being painted, so will try them with a set of spd-sl pedals in the future and report back. They are expensive, but so far, am a fan. Longevity is also an issue to consider and I cannot comment on that yet.
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    Default Re: Road shoes with a wide toe box?

    Iím thinking of trying either custom Sidas insoles or custom Specialized/Retul. Anyone have experience with either?

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