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Thread: Pirelli Up to their Old Tricks

  1. #1
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    Default Pirelli Up to their Old Tricks

    Pirelli has started making bicycle tires again. Evidently they roll and go around corners well. That's about it for reviews. All clinchers, no tubulars and no tubeless. Catch the "deets" here at BikeRumor. Of course, Pirelli is now owned by ChinaChem and Pirelli owns the rights to Clement and has licensed Clement to an American company etc.

    Anyway, I think the tires look interesting. But what is also interesting is that Schwalbe switched from a slick to a grooved design for 2017. Pirelli has a grooved design. Continental has always had a grooved design. I guess grooves are where it's at.

    Old



    New



    Schwalbe One V-Guard



    Continental 4000s II



    Who is going to buy a pair of Pirelli tires and try them out?
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    Default Re: Pirelli Up to their Old Tricks

    Once all the tires I have sitting in a box getting dry-rotted are unusable, I'll have to buy some new rubber and I'd give 'em a shot.
     

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    Default Re: Pirelli Up to their Old Tricks

    People have no clue and think skinny slick tires would aquaplane and be slippery in the wet. Thus slick tires do not sell as well and manufacturers choose to add uneffective grooves to reassure them.
    --
    T h o m a s

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    Default Re: Pirelli Up to their Old Tricks

    The only thing those grooves are good for is to check tire wear...
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    Default Re: Pirelli Up to their Old Tricks

    I prefer the picture of their old tires.
    IF Crown Jewel / Shand Stooshie / IF Club Racer Disc / Ritchey Steel Break-Away / Colnago Master X Light

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    Default Re: Pirelli Up to their Old Tricks

    No go for me if there's no tubeless option.
     

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    Default Re: Pirelli Up to their Old Tricks

    It is amazing that people still believe this nonsense. You would think with all the other marketing BS they share with the average cyclist, they could kill this once and for all. Grooves do not matter on road bike tires. Slick is better.


    Quote Originally Posted by sk_tle View Post
    People have no clue and think skinny slick tires would aquaplane and be slippery in the wet. Thus slick tires do not sell as well and manufacturers choose to add uneffective grooves to reassure them.
    Quote Originally Posted by markrides View Post
    The only thing those grooves are good for is to check tire wear...
    N=1.5 (custom Seven Axiom SL, mid-reach brake, 28mm or larger tire, fender mounts, pump peg, and 11x32 cassette)(Lynskey R255 in a box)

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    Default Re: Pirelli Up to their Old Tricks

    i would be curious to know how many factories there are worldwide that are actually manufacturing quality bike tires.
    i bet not many.

    ive been using clements and i like them..
     

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    Default Re: Pirelli Up to their Old Tricks

    Quote Originally Posted by NYCfixie View Post
    It is amazing that people still believe this nonsense. You would think with all the other marketing BS they share with the average cyclist, they could kill this once and for all. Grooves do not matter on road bike tires. Slick is better.
    i have tried hard to get this out of my head. and i can't. i believe the incident that really cemented the idea was a fast chicane when my rear end slipped. had done 60mi already on roads that just had a few random patches of damp. hit this one patch in the chicane that i had hit hundreds of times before in similar conditions, and my rear end slipped out a little bit. at the time I was riding a Tarmac in which my rear wheel would shift in the dropouts, but i didn't know it at the time. i thought it was my tires (Spec Turbo Pros). ever since then, i haven't been able to comfortably ride slick unless the conditions were perfect.
    -Dustin

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    Default Re: Pirelli Up to their Old Tricks

    -- love that "grand premo" marketing..
    --serve up some pirelli stock & chemchina.., not tires..

    ronnie with a smile
     

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    Default Re: Pirelli Up to their Old Tricks

    Quote Originally Posted by dashDustin View Post
    i have tried hard to get this out of my head. and i can't. i believe the incident that really cemented the idea was a fast chicane when my rear end slipped. had done 60mi already on roads that just had a few random patches of damp. hit this one patch in the chicane that i had hit hundreds of times before in similar conditions, and my rear end slipped out a little bit. at the time I was riding a Tarmac in which my rear wheel would shift in the dropouts, but i didn't know it at the time. i thought it was my tires (Spec Turbo Pros). ever since then, i haven't been able to comfortably ride slick unless the conditions were perfect.
    I learned a great deal about hydroplaning/aquaplaning when I took a class to get my motorcycle license and then in follow up skills classes.

    Car tires are flat when they meet the road and oncoming water which forces the car tire to ride above the water (i.e. hydroplaning) when it cannot push it to the side. The most extreme example is Formula1 cars due to how wide and flat their tires are and why they switch from "dry" tires to "rain" tires with groves as the weather changes. The grooves on F1 rain tires (and regular car tires) help channel water to the outside and away from the tire. Motorcycle and Bicycle tires are not flat where/when they meet the road and thus do not have the same issue (to the same extent). Also, at some point any tire will loose traction given enough water. I am sure someone with a background in physics can explain it much better than I can.

    The other issue is that many drivers/cyclists do not know the dangers of "freshly damp" roads that most motorcyclists do:
    - during that first 30 minutes of rain all the oil/fluids from cars comes up out of the road onto the surface which is very slick for all
    - roads are not flat (higher in the middle to allow drainage) so as the rain continues this car fluid moves to the edge of roads where we ride our bikes making it that much more dangerous
    - at stoplights/intersections/etc. the most slippery section is in the middle where cars wait and fluids drop on the road (this is in wet or dry conditions) - ever have your unclipped shoe slide on the road while stopped and not know why?
    - metal covers and painted lines on roads are very slippery when wet

    So, while the difference is probably imperceptible to most, adding grooves to a "road" bike tire actually lessens the traction.
     

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    Default Re: Pirelli Up to their Old Tricks

    Water is slippery. There's no getting around that. My understanding is that the tread exists to direct water out from under the tire to prevent hydroplaning. True hydroplaning doesn't occur until the pressure of the water in front of the tire builds and deforms the tire, allowing it to ride up on top the of the water. There's such a thing a minimum hydroplaning speed- nine times the square root of the tire pressure. Below this speed, you'll slip but you won't hydroplane. Hydroplaning and therefore, the need for tread, doesn't exist for us at the pressures most of us are using. Even descending in Switzerland.
     

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Pirelli Up to their Old Tricks

    Tread patterns do identify a brand though...... just sayin'
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    Default Re: Pirelli Up to their Old Tricks

    Quote Originally Posted by corko View Post
    Tread patterns do identify a brand though...... just sayin'
    And I always thought the sidewall does...
     

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    Default Re: Pirelli Up to their Old Tricks

    Quote Originally Posted by NYCfixie View Post
    I learned a great deal about hydroplaning/aquaplaning when I took a class to get my motorcycle license and then in follow up skills classes.

    Car tires are flat when they meet the road and oncoming water which forces the car tire to ride above the water (i.e. hydroplaning) when it cannot push it to the side. The most extreme example is Formula1 cars due to how wide and flat their tires are and why they switch from "dry" tires to "rain" tires with groves as the weather changes. The grooves on F1 rain tires (and regular car tires) help channel water to the outside and away from the tire. Motorcycle and Bicycle tires are not flat where/when they meet the road and thus do not have the same issue (to the same extent). Also, at some point any tire will loose traction given enough water. I am sure someone with a background in physics can explain it much better than I can.

    The other issue is that many drivers/cyclists do not know the dangers of "freshly damp" roads that most motorcyclists do:
    - during that first 30 minutes of rain all the oil/fluids from cars comes up out of the road onto the surface which is very slick for all
    - roads are not flat (higher in the middle to allow drainage) so as the rain continues this car fluid moves to the edge of roads where we ride our bikes making it that much more dangerous
    - at stoplights/intersections/etc. the most slippery section is in the middle where cars wait and fluids drop on the road (this is in wet or dry conditions) - ever have your unclipped shoe slide on the road while stopped and not know why?
    - metal covers and painted lines on roads are very slippery when wet

    So, while the difference is probably imperceptible to most, adding grooves to a "road" bike tire actually lessens the traction.
    I knew the 30 min rule and ff its a rain shower after a long dry spell its even more dangerous.
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    Default Re: Pirelli Up to their Old Tricks

    Quote Originally Posted by NYCfixie View Post
    And I always thought the sidewall does...
    Never had issues identifying a slick schwalbe ultremo for a michelin pro 4 for instance.
    --
    T h o m a s

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    Default Re: Pirelli Up to their Old Tricks

    Just like a fishing lure is designed to catch an angler, the function of tread on a bike tire is to maximize traction on the dollars in your wallet.

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    Default Re: Pirelli Up to their Old Tricks

    the question is: what is the pricing and availability going to be?

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    Default Re: Pirelli Up to their Old Tricks

    They should have gone w/the old label. We all had enough of high tech image.
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    Default Re: Pirelli Up to their Old Tricks

    Quote Originally Posted by AngryScientist View Post
    the question is: what is the pricing and availability going to be?
    VeloNews says $60 and August.

    Casing is 127tpi. A number of these newer compound lower rolling resistance tires from several different manufacturers are listed as having 127tpi casings.
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