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Thread: one more nail in the coffin atmo -

  1. #21
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    I started selling menswear in a traditional shop when I was in high school and kept at it through college part-time and vacations. I loved wearing suits and ties as they made me look like an adult which got me more respect form almost everyone I met.

    When I started in the business world for a Fortune 500 company all trainees in their 6 month training program had to wear suits and HATS. Twice in my youth I was a saleman in NYC and we all wore suits and some of us wore hats.

    Three years in the Army and I wore the Uniform of the Day which always included a hat or a helmet.

    When I started selling real estate in 1972 we wore suits except on Saturday mornings when a blazer and open collar shirt was ok. By 2000 my clients were asking me questions like "where's the funeral?" or "are you going to a wedding?" when I wore a suit/tie. Well the idea in sales is to dress to make your clientele comfortable so I went "business casual" and was a lot more comfortable.

    When you analyze them men's suits are a really dumb design. If it's cold the open front doesn't keep you warm enough and when it's hot a closed collar and a jacket covering you arms, shoulders and back will add to your sweating. I still reflexively put my hand to my chest when I bend over a drinking fountain to keep the tie that I'm not wearing from falling in the water.

    I am warmer than most people so for me to have to wear a suit/tie in a room that is warm enough for ladies in sleeveless silk blouses is a subtle torture. The truth is I rarely agree to go to events or restaurants that require coats and ties. In 1965 I would never have believed that I would go to a play, concert or nice restaurant without a coat and tie but I didn't expect to ever meet a female CEO of a Fortune 500 company either.

    One guess/observation: Men who have to wear suits for work all week are not too keen to wear them to go out for fun on weekends. Men who work in other clothes all week may find it fun/novel to get dressed up on weekends. I suppose a psychologist could draw some relationship between wearing work or play clothes and a person's frame of mind. A suit=work clothes= no fun tonight.
    Jeans/t-shirt= work clothes= no fun tonight.

    So Mr. Sachs: try building frames in a suit and tie for a month and see if you still want to wear one when you go out for fun. :-) Don't forget to keep your repp tie out of the flux.
     

  2. #22
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    The one good thing about suits is that I look damn handsome in them. Something about my European/Connecticut heritage just make me look damn sexy with coiffed hair and a fine suit. I'll do it for weddings, innaugural balls, and job interviews, but that is aboot it. No need to bring out the big guns when when a charming smile will do.
    we are about to break the surly bonds of gravity and punch the face of God!

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by gt6267a View Post
    you seem to be implying something. care to explain?
    Sorry, I couldn't resist a snarky comment. All you traditionalists might have a look at page 477 of A History of Harrow School, 1324-1991. Gotta love "Those who hope to rule must first learn to obey...".
     

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alfa75 View Post
    Sorry, I couldn't resist a snarky comment. All you traditionalists might have a look at page 477 of A History of Harrow School, 1324-1991. Gotta love "Those who hope to rule must first learn to obey...".
    learning to obey was an honor and a gift atmo.
    and a privilege too.
    no joke.
     

  5. #25
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    Left coaster here....don't own a tie. I think I owned one, once, maybe. Felt like a strangling dog collar on me. Don't even know how to tie one. Don't plan to know anytime soon. My Ivy league wore flip flops.
    No disrespect. Just the way we roll where I'm from.
     

  6. #26
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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by e-RICHIE View Post
    i'm a longtime effete elitist who clings to tradition and heritage,
    and when i read shit like this i cringe atmo. i remember when i
    was a junior at peddie and ruing that my final year there would
    have girls on campus. i was against the coed thing then and there,
    and believe some practices in life are the way they are because
    they work well, are not broken, and don't need fixing atmo. i'll
    keep my ties, thank you very much...


    Hey, those would go nicely with some silver Campy components, no?

    (insert many big smiley's here, please) ; - )
     

  8. #28
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    I have worked in Europe, where I wore a tie everyday, to California, where ties are generally frowned upon.

    Either way works when the people you associate with uphold standards of ethics and civility.

    As for this boys' club nonsense, a school's academic performance improves, especially at the collegiate level, when it is co-ed. For example, lots of men who gained entrance to Amherst (my alma mater) prior to the early 70s would not have been admitted to the
    co-ed Amherst. I am more agnostic with respect to high school, though.

    I intend for my boys to wear ties (my three year old year wears one when he participates in horse shows) and generally learn to be men without having a Musil high-schoool experience
     

  9. #29
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    I'm a big fan of appropriate attire and although I'm not afforded many occasions to dress up I take them when i can get them. In fact, I recently acquired three wonderful new slim cuts for an occasion in late feb. Might even shave the old beard. Lex-
     

  10. #30
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    i appreciate the cut and craftsmanship that goes into a good suit. saville row and all that. done right, its comfortable and flattering, and it communicates. i look fucking great in a suit, and the fact that i'm wearing one can occasionally help cut through a lot of bullshit. :cheers:
     

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Watoni View Post
    .
    .

    As for this boys' club nonsense, a school's academic performance improves, especially at the collegiate level, when it is co-ed. For example, lots of men who gained entrance to Amherst (my alma mater) prior to the early 70s would not have been admitted to the
    co-ed Amherst. I am more agnostic with respect to high school, though.
    Ken Robb asks: Don't you think doubling the pool of potential applicants by accepting both sexes had something to do with the school becoming more selective in who was accepted?

    I wonder if the grading standards were also raised with the influx of "better" students. I don't mean to be argumentative. I'm just curious how it all came down during this period.
     

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Robb View Post
    Ken Robb asks: Don't you think doubling the pool of potential applicants by accepting both sexes had something to do with the school becoming more selective in who was accepted?

    I wonder if the grading standards were also raised with the influx of "better" students. I don't mean to be argumentative. I'm just curious how it all came down during this period.
    Ken:

    To be clear, that is exactly what I am implying. When you draw from 100% of the population as opposed to 50% (or less), your quality/selectivity will go up. So, bemoaning the addition of women is silly in my view since it makes the quality of the student population better, even if you discount the notion that having perspectives from more than one gender enriches academic dialogue.

    By contrast, the selectivity of Smith (the former "sister school" to Amherst) has gone down. And yet, Smith has an equivalent endowment and a great faculty (I took several classes there due to some great professors who wrote my graduate school and scholarship recommendations), and the overall quality of education there is still first rate. What has suffered is the depth of the student body.
     

  13. #33
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    I met a kidkid on scholarship attending Amherst at a wedding in Cape Cod. He said that he was going to do a Semester at Smith as part of his studies.

    Suffice to say, he was very, very excited at the prospect. I can't remember if he was supposed to stay in the dorms or not.
    we are about to break the surly bonds of gravity and punch the face of God!

  14. #34
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    I personally am grateful for all-women's colleges. They throw the best parties.

    The only times I've ever worn a tie they were tied for me and lovingly place around my neck by Smithies or ladies from Wellesley before they took me to meet their Daddy at "The Opera".



    Then again, "designer casual" gave us Michael Ball.

    I'd wear a tie every day if that would fix something.
    mickey.denoncourt
    Product Manager- Commonwealth Cycles

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by suspectdevice View Post

    I'd wear a tie every day if that would fix something.

    the tie is a freaking metaphor atmo.
    sheesh.
     

  16. #36
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    Default It's makes me a little sad too.

    However, even as a member of a generation younger than e-Richie I feel like the only thing we can do is hold on to the things we enjoy against the coming tide. We're only a stone throw away from everyone walking around in flip-flops and Juicy Couture tracksuits as it is.

    Thankfully there will always be a small cabal of people who hold on to their mechanical watches, tube amplifiers, steel bikes, and ties, even if we are surrounded by philistines with cell phones glued to their ears.
     

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by e-RICHIE View Post
    the tie is a freaking metaphor atmo.
    sheesh.
    and the garter belt, an icon.
     

  18. #38
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    The second largest private HS (Central Catholic) in my hood remains boys only (student population +/-900). Coats and ties, pretty regimented curriculum and an alumni following that runs deep for generations. They have had no issue remaining single gender, as has the girls only HS (Oakland Catholic), which is about three blocks away.

    I'm sure that financial pressure will require consolidation at some point..everyone can't afford $8,000-9,000/year for high school. But for now, they seem to be holding their own.
     

  19. #39
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    Mr. Sachs, I always took you for a bow tie man.



    A bit of commentary: I've watched higher ed turn from a jacket and tie culture into a place where it's tough to tell many of the professors from the students. I don't think that change has done much to help colleges and universities effectively educate their students. It is only coincidental, in my opinion, that the few institutions who still have high expectations for faculty conduct (including dress) also tend to produce graduates who excel.
     

  20. #40
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    Jackie Phelan has been known to win races in a mens suit and tie just because she can.

    My dog sometimes wears an Elizabethan collar.

    What the hell is an atmo?

    Who cares?

    I just want to ride my bike.
     

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