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Thread: Omnibus 2019-20 'Cross Season Is More Bad-A** Than Anything Else Thread

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    Default Re: Omnibus 2019-20 'Cross Season Is More Bad-A** Than Anything Else Thread

    Excellent women's race at Brussels University this morning. Yara Kastelijn might not agree though. Nor might Laura Verdonschot. Class move at the end by Sanne Cant.

    You Tube link. Copy link, remove spaces and paste in your browser to play "outside" VSalon.

    https://youtu .be/ oTL15DZbotc
    Last edited by j44ke; 01-05-2020 at 12:58 PM.
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    Default Re: Omnibus 2019-20 'Cross Season Is More Bad-A** Than Anything Else Thread

    Re Kastelein; I thought running back on course was automatic DQ? Not talking about taking another rider out in the process.
     

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    Default Re: Omnibus 2019-20 'Cross Season Is More Bad-A** Than Anything Else Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by rabo View Post
    Re Kastelein; I thought running back on course was automatic DQ? Not talking about taking another rider out in the process.
    The commissars seem to be a little more relaxed these days. I can't recall her name but what about the young dutch woman, Shirin van Anrooij, who entered the pits last week at Diegem and found no mechanic waiting for her*. The commissar stopped her leaving since she hadn't changed bikes and held her there for about 30 seconds. But then a mechanic ran over to her at the end of the pits and touched her on the shoulder... and the commissar let her leave and continue to race. It all sucked for her but it was in contravention of the rules, I think.

    *Diegem has split pits so she seemed to have a mechanic and bikes in only one of them and she got a flat just before the wrong pit section.
     

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    Default Re: Omnibus 2019-20 'Cross Season Is More Bad-A** Than Anything Else Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bdaghisallo View Post
    The commissars seem to be a little more relaxed these days. I can't recall her name but what about the young dutch woman, Shirin van Anrooij, who entered the pits last week at Diegem and found no mechanic waiting for her*. The commissar stopped her leaving since she hadn't changed bikes and held her there for about 30 seconds. But then a mechanic ran over to her at the end of the pits and touched her on the shoulder... and the commissar let her leave and continue to race. It all sucked for her but it was in contravention of the rules, I think.

    *Diegem has split pits so she seemed to have a mechanic and bikes in only one of them and she got a flat just before the wrong pit section.
    I am pretty sure you don't have to take an exchange in the pits. All you have to do is put one foot on the ground to be street legal.

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    Default Re: Omnibus 2019-20 'Cross Season Is More Bad-A** Than Anything Else Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by e-RICHIE View Post
    I am pretty sure you don't have to take an exchange in the pits. All you have to do is put one foot on the ground to be street legal.
    I was always under the impression that a bike exchange had to happen. I wonder why van Anrooij was held for so long. She definitely had her feet on the ground.
     

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    Default Re: Omnibus 2019-20 'Cross Season Is More Bad-A** Than Anything Else Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bdaghisallo View Post
    I was always under the impression that a bike exchange had to happen. I wonder why van Anrooij was held for so long. She definitely had her feet on the ground.
    I watched it. I can't speak to that. My experiences at all UCI events is that a foot down is all you need. That said, it's done in case the exchange isn't there, or ready, or the mechanic is missing, or ... It happens rarely. But it is a thing.

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    Default Re: Omnibus 2019-20 'Cross Season Is More Bad-A** Than Anything Else Thread

    I thought perhaps she wanted to go back through the pits having missed her mechanic or her mechanic missed her - or she had gotten a new bike with a flat - and the official had allowed the mechanic to come forward but not her to go backward.

    Kastelijn was a complete mess at Brussels and ended the race bawling. Not sure what was going on there.
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    Default Re: Omnibus 2019-20 'Cross Season Is More Bad-A** Than Anything Else Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by rabo View Post
    Re Kastelein; I thought running back on course was automatic DQ? Not talking about taking another rider out in the process.
    You can run or ride back the length of the pit only. Pass the pit exit and you have to keep going. The length of the pit is the only place on the course that you can legally backtrack.

    USAC rules state: "A rider passing the pit entrance and continuing beyond the pit exit (yellow flagged area)
    may not enter that pit, but must continue around the course to the next pit. A rider not pass-
    ing the pit exit, may enter that pit after dismounting and walking backwards on the course to
    the pit entrance."

    UCI rules don't stipulate that the rider dismount and walk. Apparently riding back is allowed as well.

    I'm sure Verdonschot was upset, and Kastelein clearly was. I couldn't tell exactly why the collision happened, even after watching a couple times. Regardless, Kastelein seems plagued by bad luck or poor bike handling.
     

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    Default Re: Omnibus 2019-20 'Cross Season Is More Bad-A** Than Anything Else Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by e-RICHIE View Post
    My experiences at all UCI events is that a foot down is all you need.
    I can't find anything explicit in USAC rules, but in the Midwest I've been told that you have to actually do something to your bike. Must be "discretionary?" One official even said you can check your bike and continue, but that you must do something to your bike.
    I've done Jingle Cross a couple times when dismounting and remounting through the pit would've been much faster (more grass in the pit lane).

    UCI rules state:

    5.1.038 A rider may only take the pit lane to change his bicycle, wheel(s) or for other
    mechanical assistance.
    Should a rider take the pit lane for any other reason, the commissaires shall decide and
    the decision shall be final.
     

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    Default Re: Omnibus 2019-20 'Cross Season Is More Bad-A** Than Anything Else Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jstonebarger View Post
    I can't find anything explicit in USAC rules, but in the Midwest I've been told that you have to actually do something to your bike. Must be "discretionary?" One official even said you can check your bike and continue, but that you must do something to your bike.
    I've done Jingle Cross a couple times when dismounting and remounting through the pit would've been much faster (more grass in the pit lane).

    UCI rules state:

    5.1.038 A rider may only take the pit lane to change his bicycle, wheel(s) or for other
    mechanical assistance.
    Should a rider take the pit lane for any other reason, the commissaires shall decide and
    the decision shall be final.
    I feel like it maybe used to be a foot down/or dismount take a step and remount and you were good, perhaps this was changed sometime back.

    Seems like the wording is open to a bit of interpretation especially in van Anrooij's case, she "took the pit for assistance" as the rules dictated, her mechanic wasn't there but that was the intent of her pitting in my view she shouldn't have even been held.
     

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    Default Re: Omnibus 2019-20 'Cross Season Is More Bad-A** Than Anything Else Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by rabo View Post
    Her choice afaik from interviews.
    Cant holding back on purpose "to make something of the season" suggesting worlds.
    Vos not racing much in the christmas period apparently.
    Probably not pc to state Alvarado handels her bike like a (elite) man?



    What are you saying here?
     

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    Default Re: Omnibus 2019-20 'Cross Season Is More Bad-A** Than Anything Else Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by j44ke View Post
    Shirin van Anrooij got herself onto the podium at Gullegem. She's been doing well in the top 10.
    and now she's been rewarded with a spot on the Telenet Baloise Lions team:

    17-jarig talent Shirin van Anrooij trekt naar Telenet Baloise Lions: "Verrast" | Veldrijden | sporza
     

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    Default Re: Omnibus 2019-20 'Cross Season Is More Bad-A** Than Anything Else Thread

    re: entering pit without getting new bike... I'm not sure if it's changed in the UCI rules or not. I know it used to certainly be allowed as the old Svenness series had highlighted the oddity of it a few times. when riders would enter pit mistakenly and have to hop off/on so as not to be DQ'ed.

    re: Kastelijn and going backwards on course to pit entrance... it's certainly allowed (provided you haven't passed pit exit). I recall Wout doing it a year or two back, in fact (and we maybe even discussed here?). I think she was DQ'd because she wasn't more careful in doing so, and apparently ended Verdonschot's race because of it. she basically had her bike perpendicular to the track, creating a huge obstacle. not sure if intentional or just "race brain", or if they have to prove intent to DQ, or if it's just their discretion...
     

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    Default Re: Omnibus 2019-20 'Cross Season Is More Bad-A** Than Anything Else Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by chiasticon View Post
    re: entering pit without getting new bike... I'm not sure if it's changed in the UCI rules or not. I know it used to certainly be allowed as the old Svenness series had highlighted the oddity of it a few times. when riders would enter pit mistakenly and have to hop off/on so as not to be DQ'ed.
    That was the rule as I know it.

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    Default Re: Omnibus 2019-20 'Cross Season Is More Bad-A** Than Anything Else Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by chiasticon View Post
    and now she's been rewarded with a spot on the Telenet Baloise Lions team:

    17-jarig talent Shirin van Anrooij trekt naar Telenet Baloise Lions: "Verrast" | Veldrijden | sporza
    Yay! So that means she'll be riding a Trek then. Hopefully that means she'll also get a mechanic and some new tires!

    Quote Originally Posted by chiasticon View Post
    re: entering pit without getting new bike... I'm not sure if it's changed in the UCI rules or not. I know it used to certainly be allowed as the old Svenness series had highlighted the oddity of it a few times. when riders would enter pit mistakenly and have to hop off/on so as not to be DQ'ed.

    re: Kastelijn and going backwards on course to pit entrance... it's certainly allowed (provided you haven't passed pit exit). I recall Wout doing it a year or two back, in fact (and we maybe even discussed here?). I think she was DQ'd because she wasn't more careful in doing so, and apparently ended Verdonschot's race because of it. she basically had her bike perpendicular to the track, creating a huge obstacle. not sure if intentional or just "race brain", or if they have to prove intent to DQ, or if it's just their discretion...
    Oh hey - I didn't realize that Kastelijn was actually DQ'd. After the pit incident, she crashed a second time on the steep descent and when she picked up her bike, she took down Kata Blanka Vas and held up Ellen Van Loy, Riberolle and maybe Lechner(?) Not a good look. She'll need to do some apologizing.
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    Default Re: Omnibus 2019-20 'Cross Season Is More Bad-A** Than Anything Else Thread

    I feel bad for Kastelijn, but as my wife says, "She seems out of control lately. I wouldn't want to be on her wheel."
     

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    Default Re: Omnibus 2019-20 'Cross Season Is More Bad-A** Than Anything Else Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by djg714 View Post
    [/B]

    What are you saying here?
    Playing the mens and women's race back to back will show what I mean.

    Kastelijn has superior power but not the skills of the top women.
    On the right course she could be world champ, as she is current Euro champ.
     

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    Default Re: Omnibus 2019-20 'Cross Season Is More Bad-A** Than Anything Else Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by rabo View Post
    Playing the mens and women's race back to back will show what I mean.

    Kastelijn has superior power but not the skills of the top women.
    On the right course she could be world champ, as she is current Euro champ.
    Your original comment sounds like you are using a gender as a benchmark rather than the performance level of elite bike racers as a benchmark.
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    Default Re: Omnibus 2019-20 'Cross Season Is More Bad-A** Than Anything Else Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by j44ke View Post
    Your original comment sounds like you are using a gender as a benchmark rather than the performance level of elite bike racers as a benchmark.
    I did , that's why it is probably not pc.
     

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    Default Re: Omnibus 2019-20 'Cross Season Is More Bad-A** Than Anything Else Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by rabo View Post
    I did , that's why it is probably not pc.
    Nor is it correct period. The difference, for example, between MvdP and say Quentin Hermans is not that MvdP is more of a man than Quentin Hermans. MvdP is a better racer with better power and better skills.
    Last edited by j44ke; 01-06-2020 at 10:40 PM.
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