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Thread: New Campagnolo EKAR groupset unveiled today

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    Default Re: New Campagnolo EKAR groupset unveiled today

    Quote Originally Posted by nachetetm View Post
    I would say MOST people is scared of electronic shifting prices. If prices were similar, mechanical groupsets would have followed the same path as caliper brakes long time ago. Relevant on custom bikes but almost irrelevant on industrial bikes. Everyone that rides with me would buy electronic in a heartbeat if prices where in their ballpark (same for me)
    I think for a lot of people it’s not (always) the cost of an electronic groupset that is off-putting, it’s the cost of replacement components. Especially when it comes to an off road grouppo, where the likelihood of trees etc. Jumping out in front of you or whatever.
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    Default Re: New Campagnolo EKAR groupset unveiled today

    Quote Originally Posted by sk_tle View Post
    I would guess the ability to have satellite shifting buttons at the top oh the handlebar is a nice ergonomic feature. Not a game changer though.
    Maybe? I have satellite shifters on a couple bikes. I always forget they're there until it's time to rewrap my bars.
    "I guess you're some weird relic of an obsolete age." - davids

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    Default Re: New Campagnolo EKAR groupset unveiled today

    Quote Originally Posted by Tristan View Post
    ...is worse than mechanical system which doesn't work as well as electric when brand-new...
    This has not been my experience. I’ve not ridden Dura Ace Di2, but have a few weeks on Force eTap AXS, and the mechanical shifting on my..ahem..well worn Record 11 bike is significantly better, SIGNIFICANTLY faster, more tactile, more feedback, utterly predictable. I turn the tension adjuster every once in a while. I don’t mind SRAM electronic shifting and I do actually like the hoods. But the brakes are loud and the shifting was slow. If this is down to the adjustment of wireless systems, than it surely not as set-and-forget as it might seem?

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    Default Re: New Campagnolo EKAR groupset unveiled today

    All production bikes sold in bike shops should come with some form of electronic shifting. There would be more cyclists. 1x systems with electronic shifting seem like the quickest way to get even more people cycling.
    Last edited by j44ke; 4 Weeks Ago at 08:22 PM.
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    Default Re: New Campagnolo EKAR groupset unveiled today

    Quote Originally Posted by j44ke View Post
    All production bikes sold in bike shops should come with some form of electronic shifting. There would be more cyclists. 1x systems with electronic shifting seem like the quickest way to get even more people cycling.
    I guess I just don't get it. This summer, in the US, about 50 million bikes came out of retirement and, with a little bit of grease and new tubes, got their owners outside contributing to their health and dramatically reducing carbon outputs. How likely is that to have happened if all of those relied upon 20 year old electronic bits? And what of the batteries? With 20 million bikes sold every year with a 60 gram battery, that's 12000 metric tons of battery waste to be dealt with every three-five years? In the US-- 72000 tons globally!

    I know I can find a reasonably cared for bike, even a poorly treated one, from the last 50 years and with some replacement cables and housing, new rubber bits, and a few hours of work get it rolling again with its existing kit. Good luck saying that in even ten years with anything with electronic shifting. I know we're not all in this because of the environmental impact, but motors and batteries on everything is just egregious.
    This is my substitute for pistol and ball. With a philosophical flourish Cato throws himself upon his sword; I quietly take to the bike.

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    Default Re: New Campagnolo EKAR groupset unveiled today

    Quote Originally Posted by jmgorman View Post
    I guess I just don't get it. This summer, in the US, about 50 million bikes came out of retirement and, with a little bit of grease and new tubes, got their owners outside contributing to their health and dramatically reducing carbon outputs. How likely is that to have happened if all of those relied upon 20 year old electronic bits? And what of the batteries? With 20 million bikes sold every year with a 60 gram battery, that's 12000 metric tons of battery waste to be dealt with every three-five years? In the US-- 72000 tons globally!

    I know I can find a reasonably cared for bike, even a poorly treated one, from the last 50 years and with some replacement cables and housing, new rubber bits, and a few hours of work get it rolling again with its existing kit. Good luck saying that in even ten years with anything with electronic shifting. I know we're not all in this because of the environmental impact, but motors and batteries on everything is just egregious.

    amen

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    Default Re: New Campagnolo EKAR groupset unveiled today

    Opposite of what you would think; the older I get, the less gears I need.

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    Default Re: New Campagnolo EKAR groupset unveiled today

    Quote Originally Posted by rabo View Post
    Opposite of what you would think; the older I get, the less gears I need.
    And the fewer hair brushes.

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    Default Re: New Campagnolo EKAR groupset unveiled today

    Sure, I share the appreciation for simplicity and future proof analog parts. And battery waste is a good point also of course.

    But I've seen enough people become avid cyclists as the result of a bike with electronic shifting to believe it has more of a role in creating novice or first time cyclists than it does in meeting the needs of riders with more experience. Right now, electronic shifting is a niche aspect of cycling as a whole. I think if there were more entry level electronic systems on bikes in the under-$1000 range, there would be more new cyclists. But if it were possible to recreate the simplicity of electronic shifting in the entry level with a different more environmentally sound system, that would be great. I haven't, however, seen the same response to cable actuated systems as I have to electronic.

    BTW, where did you get the statistic of 50 million bikes? That's pretty interesting. How many of them are still being ridden?
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    Default Re: New Campagnolo EKAR groupset unveiled today

    Quote Originally Posted by j44ke View Post
    Sure, I share the appreciation for simplicity and future proof analog parts. And battery waste is a good point also of course.

    But I've seen enough people become avid cyclists as the result of a bike with electronic shifting to believe it has more of a role in creating novice or first time cyclists than it does in meeting the needs of riders with more experience. Right now, electronic shifting is a niche aspect of cycling as a whole. I think if there were more entry level electronic systems on bikes in the under-$1000 range, there would be more new cyclists. But if it were possible to recreate the simplicity of electronic shifting in the entry level with a different more environmentally sound system, that would be great. I haven't, however, seen the same response to cable actuated systems as I have to electronic.

    BTW, where did you get the statistic of 50 million bikes? That's pretty interesting. How many of them are still being ridden?
    Can't find the 50m number now, read it earlier in the summer, after all of the $1000 bikes sold out. I guess I haven't seen the excitement from electronic groups, though maybe if people are treating it initially like a gadget? Or maybe it's just whatever the hook is. At my gym, one guy bought a entry-level folder and within weeks four or five other guys had them and were asking me to recommend routes. Maybe it isn't about the bike (but the feeeeeling.)
    This is my substitute for pistol and ball. With a philosophical flourish Cato throws himself upon his sword; I quietly take to the bike.

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    Default Re: New Campagnolo EKAR groupset unveiled today

    Quote Originally Posted by WFSTEKL View Post
    I know that this is not logical to anyone but me; however, I would also prefer a rim brake option. Yup.
    I'm with you actually

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    Default Re: New Campagnolo EKAR groupset unveiled today

    Quote Originally Posted by j44ke View Post
    I think if there were more entry level electronic systems on bikes in the under-$1000 range, there would be more new cyclists.
    I don't understand why ? What is the dramatic difference between an electric system and a mechanical one ? From my experience on both system you press the trigger and it shifts. The only difference is in the amount of travel you have to actuate the trigger with.

    But if it were possible to recreate the simplicity of electronic shifting in the entry level with a different more environmentally sound system, that would be great. I haven't, however, seen the same response to cable actuated systems as I have to electronic.
    1x groupsets are all about simplicity. hubgears as well.
    If you want simplicity : single ring systems. Derailleurs or
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    Default Re: New Campagnolo EKAR groupset unveiled today

    Quote Originally Posted by sk_tle View Post
    I don't understand why ? What is the dramatic difference between an electric system and a mechanical one ? From my experience on both system you press the trigger and it shifts. The only difference is in the amount of travel you have to actuate the trigger with.



    1x groupsets are all about simplicity. hubgears as well.
    If you want simplicity : single ring systems. Derailleurs or
    Electric systems are just buttons. Cable systems require operating a lever. I think there are a couple degrees less thought involved in pressing a button than operating a lever. Also if you make a mistake, you just push the other button and it goes back. It is a subtle difference perhaps, and possibly a non-existent one for experience cyclists (except that most of the pro peloton uses electronic shifting so there's at least some perceptible difference for experience cyclists.) Maybe that the opportunity to do it wrong and make a mistake seems reduced and thus operational anxiety is reduced - something that would be more important for a novice cyclist that an experienced one.

    Just an idea based on observation. Probably not worth further discussion.
    Last edited by j44ke; 4 Weeks Ago at 08:34 AM.
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    Default Re: New Campagnolo EKAR groupset unveiled today

    Quote Originally Posted by j44ke View Post
    Electric systems are just buttons. Cable systems require operating a lever. ...... Maybe that the opportunity to do it wrong and make a mistake seems reduced and thus operational anxiety is reduced - something that would be more important for a novice cyclist that an experienced one.
    This....No matter how hard I tried I couldn't get my wife to continue with/ get "into" cycling until I put Di2 on her bike. I think you nailed it with the lever thing combined with operational anxiety.
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    Default Re: New Campagnolo EKAR groupset unveiled today

    Campagnolo isn’t gunning for first-time cyclists here. This is a gruppo for a tough bike that’s going to be taken out and ridden hard in remote locations. It shouldn't be dressed like a Range Rover with 22” rims and 35-series tires.

    I’ve ridden a bunch of fairly adventurous adventure rides with others who have had electronic shifting. On a few of those I was the only person with mechanical shifting (and rim brakes). No issues, so it really ain’t no thang.

    But in my book, to have a “cockroach” bike that can survive anything including an EMP, the derailleurs will be actuated by cables because I have a good chance of fixing that with the tools I’m carrying. Broken bikes are the slowest bikes. Riding beats walking.

    And I’m a firm believer that the future is internal gearing, and not necessarily electronic. Although likely both. Newbs, grumps, and gearheads will all benefit from not having all the spigatz and gool hanging off the right side of the rear end, hoovering up sticks and leaves, getting dirty, and continually bending that precious and impressively skinny chain.
    Last edited by thollandpe; 4 Weeks Ago at 09:30 AM.
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    Default Re: New Campagnolo EKAR groupset unveiled today

    ^
    I agree.

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    Default Re: New Campagnolo EKAR groupset unveiled today

    Quote Originally Posted by thollandpe View Post
    Campagnolo isn’t gunning for first-time cyclists here. This is a gruppo for a tough bike that’s going to be taken out and ridden hard in remote locations. It shouldn't be dressed like a Range Rover with 22” rims and 35-series tires.

    I’ve ridden a bunch of fairly adventurous adventure rides with others who have had electronic shifting. On a few of those I was the only person with mechanical shifting (and rim brakes). No issues, so it really ain’t no thang.

    But in my book, to have a “cockroach” bike that can survive anything including an EMP, the derailleurs will be actuated by cables because I have a good chance of fixing that with the tools I’m carrying. Broken bikes are the slowest bikes. Riding beats walking.

    And I’m a firm believer that the future is internal gearing, and not necessarily electronic. Although likely both. Newbs, grumps, and gearheads will all benefit from not having all the spigatz and gool hanging off the right side of the rear end, hoovering up sticks and leaves, getting dirty, and continually bending that precious and impressively skinny chain.
    I was at Berkshire Bike and Board watching a woman pick out a bike. She was trying to decide between a Santa Cruz e-mountain bike and a Specialized e-gravel bike. She picked the Specialized e-gravel bike. The future is definitely electronic. And expensive.

    I think that Campagnolo group is just made to be sold to people who like Campagnolo. But that's okay, if a little late to the game.
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    Default Re: New Campagnolo EKAR groupset unveiled today

    Quote Originally Posted by j44ke View Post
    I was at Berkshire Bike and Board watching a woman pick out a bike. She was trying to decide between a Santa Cruz e-mountain bike and a Specialized e-gravel bike. She picked the Specialized e-gravel bike. The future is definitely electronic. And expensive.

    I think that Campagnolo group is just made to be sold to people who like Campagnolo. But that's okay, if a little late to the game.

    These choices ^ ^ are e as in electronic shifting, or e as in e-assist?

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    Default Re: New Campagnolo EKAR groupset unveiled today

    Quote Originally Posted by e-RICHIE View Post
    These choices ^ ^ are e as in electronic shifting, or e as in e-assist?
    Motors. E-assist. But my point is that while I am surprised by it, I don't see people who are not steeped in the history and tradition of cycling shying away from electronic gizmos on their bikes. I suppose they also download the app to control the motor onto their phone.

    This one: https://www.specialized.com/us/en/tu...ext=98120-5401

    Versus this one: https://www.santacruzbicycles.com/en-US/bikes/heckler

    She wanted something to maintain her fitness now that all the gyms were closed, which is a perfectly legitimate reason to get a bike. The Berkshire shop seems to sell a lot of e-bikes.
    Last edited by j44ke; 4 Weeks Ago at 10:27 AM.
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    Default Re: New Campagnolo EKAR groupset unveiled today

    Berkshire Bike and Board probably sells as many fat bikes and studded fat tires as the rest of the shops in Mass put together.

    Maybe that says a lot about the shop and not as much the market?
    Trod Harland, Physical Educator

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