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Thread: Is my F10 too stiff ?

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    Default Re: Is my F10 too stiff ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lionel View Post
    That's the point I made earlier. There is probably no customer for a 59.5 that is less than 75kg.
    I'd have to lose a lot more than fat to get there. Confirmed by a Dexa scan haha.
    --------------------
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    Default Re: Is my F10 too stiff ?

    OT but yes, well spotted Bruce.

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    Default Re: Is my F10 too stiff ?

    Anybody following Clean's thread about a Dogma on the Paceline Forum? Check out his recent post about the F8 X-light he got in the mail from Chain Reaction.

    Don't think I will ever order anything from them, let's put it that way...
     

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    Default Re: Is my F10 too stiff ?

    Quote Originally Posted by thomas View Post
    Anybody following Clean's thread about a Dogma on the Paceline Forum? Check out his recent post about the F8 X-light he got in the mail from Chain Reaction.

    Don't think I will ever order anything from them, let's put it that way...
    Yep - and so we will remain forever in the dark about how a 59.5 X-Light would ride under an 85kg (and falling) rouleur..

    Mistakes get made, but how any company can ship out an $8.5K frameset with zero protection beyond a flimsy bubble-wrap bag is beyond me.





    Kirk MRB

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    Default Re: Is my F10 too stiff ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Clean39T View Post
    ...how any company can ship out an $8.5K frameset with zero protection beyond a flimsy bubble-wrap bag is beyond me.
    Especially given that they’re so prone to completely overpacking really small items. Idiots.

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    Default Re: Is my F10 too stiff ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Clean39T View Post
    Mistakes get made, but how any company can ship out an $8.5K frameset with zero protection beyond a flimsy bubble-wrap bag is beyond me.
    I guess because it is still cheaper to hire people and not train them to know and recognize an item that should be more protected than another than to refund a few customers here and there.
    --
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    Default Re: Is my F10 too stiff ?

    Brexit brain drain. Plus all the cardboard is getting used for packing household items and shipped to the continent.

    Hope things work out the way they should.
    Jorn Ake
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    Default Re: Is my F10 too stiff ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lionel View Post
    That weight limit does not really scare me much, I am sort of curious if it would ride softer or any different than the standard F8. They are not going to find a lot of riders fitting that 59.5 frame that are less than 75k.
    everyone who is riding a 59,5 Dogma for a living is under 75kg.

    the weight limit is to keep a Theo Bos off this bike- not the average rider who isn't going to put out anywhere near the power that a 165lb pro cyclist would. These things are pretty much built in the same way as all the F8s but with thinner wall thicknesses like the the fancy TT bikes. If they do fall over and crack- the bike isn't really repairable because the stresses will migrate elsewhere and all of a sudden you'll get a random crack there. I tried to repair a number of Montellos and F8s and X-Lights and it didn't matter who did the repair- the bike broke again in short order and it also never rode the same.

    I know a bunch of you gave me shit for me sharing with you what the folks at Pinarello told me concerning how the carbon in these bikes is basically taut and under tension and if that tension is relieved in anyway like through a puncture to the carbon- the bike isn't going to behave in the same way.

    These things are really cool bikes- they are weird because they exhibit the best aspects of a heavy solid rigid race bike and the best feelings of a super light weight bike. They all feel planted and solid but like they want to jump.

    Honestly an F10 Dogma X-Light is pretty much how I want a race bike to ride. As I think Lionel can attest- the Aerotack is pretty similar to an F8 Dogma that's a little bit heavier especially in bigger sizes. Of course- the advantage to an Aerotack is that we can tweak everything about the bike in a way you can't with a monocoque production bike. Still- if you fit a Dogma X-Light perfectly- couldn't imagine a bike that handles better or looks better- yeah. that's pretty much the only guy I'd honestly tell to not buy an Aerotack- because he'd pretty much be getting the exact same thing with a slight weight, cost, and lead time penalty. Of course if he loves his F8 but wishes it was a bit more stable- or that it was a touch less jarring over chip and seal roads- or that it was even stiffer along the top tube- or it has clearance for a 30mm tire on a dumb fat rim etc. etc. I guess you should get one.

    Actually- no you shouldn't. Your should wait until NAHBS and see the next generation of carbon aero race bikes from Gaulzetti- because we changed pretty much EVERYTHING to the point that I may not even call this new bike the Aerotack.

    So there's my thread hijack.
    C
    bamboo, aluminum, wood.

    My name is Craig Gaulzetti.

    www.summercycles.com

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  9. #409
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    Default Re: Is my F10 too stiff ?

    Quote Originally Posted by jerk View Post
    .Actually- no you shouldn't. Your should wait until NAHBS and see the next generation of carbon aero race bikes from Gaulzetti- because we changed pretty much EVERYTHING to the point that I may not even call this new bike the Aerotack.

    So there's my thread hijack.
    C

  10. #410
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    Default Re: Is my F10 too stiff ?

    Quote Originally Posted by jerk View Post
    everyone who is riding a 59,5 Dogma for a living is under 75kg.

    the weight limit is to keep a Theo Bos off this bike- not the average rider who isn't going to put out anywhere near the power that a 165lb pro cyclist would. These things are pretty much built in the same way as all the F8s but with thinner wall thicknesses like the the fancy TT bikes. If they do fall over and crack- the bike isn't really repairable because the stresses will migrate elsewhere and all of a sudden you'll get a random crack there. I tried to repair a number of Montellos and F8s and X-Lights and it didn't matter who did the repair- the bike broke again in short order and it also never rode the same.

    I know a bunch of you gave me shit for me sharing with you what the folks at Pinarello told me concerning how the carbon in these bikes is basically taut and under tension and if that tension is relieved in anyway like through a puncture to the carbon- the bike isn't going to behave in the same way.

    These things are really cool bikes- they are weird because they exhibit the best aspects of a heavy solid rigid race bike and the best feelings of a super light weight bike. They all feel planted and solid but like they want to jump.

    Honestly an F10 Dogma X-Light is pretty much how I want a race bike to ride. As I think Lionel can attest- the Aerotack is pretty similar to an F8 Dogma that's a little bit heavier especially in bigger sizes. Of course- the advantage to an Aerotack is that we can tweak everything about the bike in a way you can't with a monocoque production bike. Still- if you fit a Dogma X-Light perfectly- couldn't imagine a bike that handles better or looks better- yeah. that's pretty much the only guy I'd honestly tell to not buy an Aerotack- because he'd pretty much be getting the exact same thing with a slight weight, cost, and lead time penalty. Of course if he loves his F8 but wishes it was a bit more stable- or that it was a touch less jarring over chip and seal roads- or that it was even stiffer along the top tube- or it has clearance for a 30mm tire on a dumb fat rim etc. etc. I guess you should get one.

    Actually- no you shouldn't. Your should wait until NAHBS and see the next generation of carbon aero race bikes from Gaulzetti- because we changed pretty much EVERYTHING to the point that I may not even call this new bike the Aerotack.

    So there's my thread hijack.
    C
    Thank you for sharing all that - I know I'll get to SD (and up the coast a bit) late summer - maybe before then - really looking forward to trying an Aerotack (or whatever is coming next..) after nodding my head in agreement with all of your insights on this thread and elsewhere..
    Kirk MRB

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    Default Re: Is my F10 too stiff ?

    Not trying to troll Lionel here, but I do feel obligated to share my feedback on the F10 now that I have one.. Third time seems to be a charm.

    Just doing a copy-pasta from ATH:

    After two rides, I can confirm this is the best road-race bike I've ridden to date. The hype is real. No other bike has had this combination of snap, stability, and calmness under pressure. More than any other bike I've ridden, it feels like every bit of power put into the pedals gets converted to forward motion - without feeling dead or overly stiff. The cornering is incredible, even over broken and chunky pavement - there's no head-waggle or feeling of disconnection between the front and rear of the bike. In short, it's just that good. Is an F8 better? Or an F12? Someday I'll find out.. Might even play with a 65.1 or Magnesium Dogma at some point. The fit/size seems just spot-on for me, and is consistent across all of those, so why not?

    A few other notes. The one-piece bar/stem is interesting. It's 44cm ctc at the drops, 41cm ctc at the hoods - the tops feel great, the shoulders feel great - the hooks are a bit weird - or different.. Will have to see how I get on with them longer-term. I'd like to get them painted to match the seatpost and theme overall. I got a crazy good price on the bar/stem combo, so it's still worth the effort. Etap is not my favorite. It works great, I just prefer Di2. So I'm going to work on converting it to that. Chris King hubs are also not my favorite - but the wheels feel so good and brake so well that I might just try to get used to the pack-of-bees following me around. I do wonder how the bike would feel with some 60mm hoops on the flats - might keep an eye out for those as well.

    Overall, I'm very pleased that I stuck with the search and scratched the itch. It took three tries to get one that worked. I can see it sticking around for a long time (for me anyway).


    .



    Kirk MRB

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    Default Re: Is my F10 too stiff ?

    Very nice review. I personally like the flared bars but mine are less extreme. I have a few sets of the 3T Ergonova bars which claim to be 42cm at the drops and are clearly narrower on the hoods.

    I'm curious about your thoughts on this vs your old Look 585 Ultra. I know it's not a fair fight as the 585 Ultra is a 15 year old bike at this point but I'm just curious. I still ride one and enjoy it. But I'm not neutral. I've liked Looks and other French lugged carbon bikes since pretty much forever (1980s). I always wanted a Vitus or TVT carbon. But I digress.

    I know the Look 585 is ancient and I still ride one purely for purposes of nostalgia and because it's long since paid for. And I have another NOS sitting in my basement!

    But I think you have owned both and I'd be curious to hear your thoughts. As a point of reference, I do own and occasionally ride, a more modern super bike. I have a Giant TCR Advanced SL with D/A and aero wheels. It's stupid light and stiff and I don't ride it much anymore but if I were still racing it would be the bike of choice, and it's not actually close. As a tool it's totally efficient and cold blooded. And that's why it's hard to love.

    Love to hear your comparison.
    La Cheeserie!

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    Default Re: Is my F10 too stiff ?

    I like the flare to them and the tops - but the hooks are almost ovalized in the wrong direction in the curved part - like you're gripping a knife handle or something - that's what's weird (to me).

    As for comparing to a 585 Ultra - it's been a while - but I just remember the 585 feeling like a really good steel bike, where this is totally the modern super-bike feel you described with your TCR - the difference I feel though compared to the Allied Alfa, Emonda SLRs, Izalco Max, and other "carbon wunderbikes" I've had is the torsional composure in corners - I don't know if that's an official thing, just how I'd describe the planted feeling of cornering on rough pavement and not feeling like the front and rear are fighting eachother, or that the bike is going to bounce off it's line - the Allied was close - maybe its the fact that the Dogma has a bit more well-placed heft to it - hard to say..
    Kirk MRB

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    Default Re: Is my F10 too stiff ?

    Yeah these are very good bikes ! Get the F8 :)
     

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    Default Re: Is my F10 too stiff ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lionel View Post
    Yeah these are very good bikes ! Get the F8 :)
    Will be trying one of those before too long too..

    Did you ever ride a 65.1 Think 2? Curious how that compares...... wavy-gravy design and all.
    Kirk MRB

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    Default Re: Is my F10 too stiff ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Clean39T View Post
    Will be trying one of those before too long too..

    Did you ever ride a 65.1 Think 2? Curious how that compares...... wavy-gravy design and all.
    I tried one once but never owned one. I think they ride pretty good too.
     

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    Default Re: Is my F10 too stiff ?

    Pinarello was probably about to announce the F13 just before the TDF anyway ! Now if they could try making them look good.
    Last edited by sk_tle; 4 Weeks Ago at 02:34 AM.
    --
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    Default Re: Is my F10 too stiff ?

    Quote Originally Posted by sk_tle View Post
    Pinarello was probably about to announce the F13 just before the TDF anyway ! Now if they could try making them look good.
    Would they skip the 13 or just mount it upside down. Actually, that might be behind the unique look, trying to make the bikes in keeping with an upside down 13:)
    Colin Mclelland

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    Default Re: Is my F10 too stiff ?

    F12 is like a year old. Not sure something is coming this year.
     

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    Default Re: Is my F10 too stiff ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Saab2000 View Post

    I'm curious about your thoughts on this vs your old Look 585 Ultra. I know it's not a fair fight as the 585 Ultra is a 15 year old bike at this point but I'm just curious. I still ride one and enjoy it. But I'm not neutral. I've liked Looks and other French lugged carbon bikes since pretty much forever (1980s). I always wanted a Vitus or TVT carbon. But I digress.

    I know the Look 585 is ancient and I still ride one purely for purposes of nostalgia and because it's long since paid for. And I have another NOS sitting in my basement!

    But I think you have owned both and I'd be curious to hear your thoughts. As a point of reference, I do own and occasionally ride, a more modern super bike. I have a Giant TCR Advanced SL with D/A and aero wheels. It's stupid light and stiff and I don't ride it much anymore but if I were still racing it would be the bike of choice, and it's not actually close. As a tool it's totally efficient and cold blooded. And that's why it's hard to love.

    Love to hear your comparison.
    Quote Originally Posted by Clean39T View Post
    As for comparing to a 585 Ultra - it's been a while - but I just remember the 585 feeling like a really good steel bike, where this is totally the modern super-bike feel you described with your TCR - the difference I feel though compared to the Allied Alfa, Emonda SLRs, Izalco Max, and other "carbon wunderbikes" I've had is the torsional composure in corners - I don't know if that's an official thing, just how I'd describe the planted feeling of cornering on rough pavement and not feeling like the front and rear are fighting eachother, or that the bike is going to bounce off it's line - the Allied was close - maybe its the fact that the Dogma has a bit more well-placed heft to it - hard to say..
    I'll chime in as well as I've been on both the F10 and F8...and a Look 595 and Time VXRS (many miles on these).

    It has been quite some time since I rode the 595 so memory is a bit hazy. This is said with zero offense, I don't remember the 595 wowing me. The Time VXRS was one of my most favorite bikes to ride. Just so good in so many ways. Neither one of those bikes, as good as they were, came anywhere near close what I encounter a top the F8.

    F10/F8...I'm sure there's some difference between the two. I cannot say that anything really jumped out at me. They felt very close to the same thing. Caveat being that I didn't get to do multiple head to head comparisons. They feel like what they are...siblings with very similar manners. And those manners are a treat to enjoy.

    I was talking with a few folks about this in real life. I've been fortunate to have owned some very good bikes (Sachs road, Speedvagen, Peg Love #3 , Vamoots, Time VXRS, Look 595, BMC Team Machine, Colnago C59). Again, zero disrespect to any of my past bikes. As far as road race machines are concerned, these dang Dogmas are something else. And, I never ever wanted one. Ever. Then I started reading all these threads. Thanks guys. Hehe.
     

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