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Thread: Moots Compact Sl vs Modern Ti

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    Default Moots Compact Sl vs Modern Ti

    I have a question.

    Also, I know that there are other, just as important, information that I am missing (tubing, etc.), and realize that this may be tough to answer without that info.

    I currently own a secondhand Eriksen from around 2014. I have not yet built or riden it. I assume it is custom. The bike has massive pipes and a 44mm head tube.

    I have an opportunity to swap this for a stock 56cm 2000's Moots compact SL built with 6/4 TI. (It does have a 1cm head tube extension but I am told that is the only deviation from stock). I wouldn't even consider parting with the Eriksen except we are talking about a Moots SL.

    The bikes have almost identical geometry. I have attached the charts.

    My question is how does the different material alter the bikes characteristics? Durability, compliance, etc.

    Weight is not a concern of mine. Neither frame will weigh as much as my stomach, unfortunately.

    Thank you.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by grateful; 12-14-2019 at 09:27 AM. Reason: cause I changed shit
     

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    Default Re: Moots Compact Sl vs Modern Ti

    This is one of the questions that doesn't have a "right" answer or a bad answer.

    As far as durability, this is a non-issue with well made ti frames. It is very unlikely that either of these frames will ever fail in anyway. They will last as long as you are interested in keeping it. And they will never change in how they ride from the first day it is ridden to the last.

    As far as whether different materials change the ride characteristics, I would put it another way - tubing diameters, tubing thickness, etc can have an affect on how it rides. And bigger may not mean stiffer, could just mean bigger depending on the other parameters. I wouldn't put too much on whether you would ever be able to feel the difference between 3Al/2.5V or 6Al/4V. The fact that the tubing on the Eriksen is unknown allows you to believe it is whatever tubing you want it to be if that is important :)

    Personally, I would keep the Eriksen simply because it is already in your possession, they are great bikes, has a modern headtube (not that this is overly meaningful if the Moots takes a 1 1/8 steerer), and I would see no reason to trade for an older bike.

    Eriksens are extremely well respected for good reason...as are Moots. My point is that moving from an Eriksen to a Moots is not a step up (or down).

    Just build the Eriksen and enjoy.
    Brian McLaughlin

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    Default Re: Moots Compact Sl vs Modern Ti

    Kent Ericksen started Moots, yeah? In fact, Ericksen was still involved with Moots until 2005, according to the Ericksen website. So....
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    Default Re: Moots Compact Sl vs Modern Ti

    six of one, half dozen of the other

    nice dilemma to have
     

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    Default Re: Moots Compact Sl vs Modern Ti

    Both lust-worthy bikes. People claim the 6/4 bikes ride a bit stouter, but none of my ti bikes have 6/4 tubes, so I can’t comment. The Eriksen has larger diameter tubes, which would offset the material difference (in theory). There are some practical considerations:
    What’s the BB on each bike?
    What’s the tire clearance? (Probably better on the Eriksen considering its age.)
    The more modern HT is a plus, all things considered.

    And...what does your heart say? FWIW, Eriksen in a heartbeat for me.
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    Default Re: Moots Compact Sl vs Modern Ti

    Swap?

    I wouldn't swap for an SL. Even though it has cool tubing, it is an older bike with limited tire clearance and fork choices.
    I would either stick with your Eriksen- Or if I had to have butted, I would get something like a Seven XX or XV (I have an Evergreen XV).
     

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    Default Re: Moots Compact Sl vs Modern Ti

    I really do understand the 'grass is greener on the other side' conundrum when it comes to bike frames. Oh too well. But I'd keep the Eriksen. You won't find a better made ti bike anywhere. Sounds like you're heavy - the straight gage 3/2.5 ti on the Eriksen will be really nice riding. It's really what titanium's reputation is built on (not 6/4, which is really an outlier in terms of % of all the ti frames made). The 44 headtube gives you lots of options if you ever need to replace the fork. Far fewer options now out there in straight 1 1/8" forks.

    Put the thought of a swap out of your head and build that frame up and move on. You're really set with the one you have. ATMO.

    PS. I have an Eriksen-built Hampsten Gran Paradiso ti bike. It's close to perfect.
     

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    Default Re: Moots Compact Sl vs Modern Ti

    I had a Vamoots SL and Compact SL, and sold them when I got a first-generation RSL (before the oversized headtube). The RSL wasn’t the first in the wave of ti bikes designed to be as stiff and carbon race bikes, but it was a major affirmation of the trend. I loved riding that bike, but over time I found that it beat me up on longer rides more than my old SLs used to do. In 2013, around the time that Serotta was hitting the skids, I was able to get one of the last Legends made. With the swaged tubes, it was stiffer than the SLs, but not as stiff as the RSL. I eventually sold the RSL.

    For my own taste and riding style, I find the newer, stiffer ti bikes to be overkill, especially for 25mm tires (which we all know now are unsafe at any speed). For wider tires, they’re fine. I have 2 Eriksen-built Hampsten Strada Bianca tis that I love with wider tires, but not so much with skinny tires. And I just got a Firefly disc road, which I specifically had made with skinny seatstays and a 1” seatpost. We’ll see if that combination is the Goldilocks combination.

    If I were you, I would not sell the Eriksen to buy the Moots, because there’s too much risk that you won’t like the Moots as much. If there’s any way to spring for the Moots and have the chance to ride them side-by-side for a while, I would do that. For what it’s worth, out of a fit of nostalgia, I recently picked up a Compact SL ath, but it’s at BOV being built so I haven’t had a chance to ride it. I’m looking forward to seeing how it compares with my current line up.
    Last edited by happycampyer; 12-14-2019 at 07:07 PM.
     

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    Default Re: Moots Compact Sl vs Modern Ti

    Lots of good advice. 6/4 was a weight more than a ride thing, although the thinner tubes "could " ride differently. Tubing diameter plays a much greater role in ride than grade of ti, as do the butts. I have a ridiculously large tubed custom ti bike with normal stays that rides much like my Ottrott, just doesn't disappear under me the way the Ottrott does. The bigger headtube and modern fork adds to precision if you feel you need it, although in my sizes a 1 in steerer is still plenty adequate when combined with a well designed fork.
    Devil you know.
     

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    Default Re: Moots Compact Sl vs Modern Ti

    If you can live with 25c as the tire clearance, I'd ride the Compact SL over pretty much anything. But for me it's a fetish object, considering a regular Compact from that era remains my high water mark for all around skinny tire riding despite having tried many other well respected brands (like Seven, Hampsten built by Eriksen). The proportions of a 1 1/8" headtube era Moots, especially with integrated binder, are really perfect in my eyes. I think the tube diameters are pretty goldilocks for ride quality too.

    My guess is the Eriksen is going to ride much stiffer because of the tube diameters.

    Keep me posted if it's the Compact SL gngroup has posted across the hall- I want it but it's overpriced at $2350, IMO.
     

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    Default Re: Moots Compact Sl vs Modern Ti

    Is is gngroup's that I have the opportunity to trade for. For what it is worth I am a heavier rider (225 lbs.).

    Also of note, even though custom, the Eriksen and the Moots have just about identical numbers geometry wise. If it works, it works.



    Quote Originally Posted by doomridesout View Post
    If you can live with 25c as the tire clearance, I'd ride the Compact SL over pretty much anything. But for me it's a fetish object, considering a regular Compact from that era remains my high water mark for all around skinny tire riding despite having tried many other well respected brands (like Seven, Hampsten built by Eriksen). The proportions of a 1 1/8" headtube era Moots, especially with integrated binder, are really perfect in my eyes. I think the tube diameters are pretty goldilocks for ride quality too.

    My guess is the Eriksen is going to ride much stiffer because of the tube diameters.

    Keep me posted if it's the Compact SL gngroup has posted across the hall- I want it but it's overpriced at $2350, IMO.
     

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    Default Re: Moots Compact Sl vs Modern Ti

    I would keep the Eriksen-
    I like 1 1/8 just fine- but given the choice 44 is my preference.
    To me it feels more planted

    Also- the Eriksen is a rare bird (not the Moots is not)
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    Default Re: Moots Compact Sl vs Modern Ti

    Quote Originally Posted by grateful View Post
    Is is gngroup's that I have the opportunity to trade for. For what it is worth I am a heavier rider (225 lbs.).

    Also of note, even though custom, the Eriksen and the Moots have just about identical numbers geometry wise. If it works, it works.
    At 225 lbs, I would keep the Eriksen. I weigh 170 - 175 lbs (or at least should) and, even though that itsn't exactly "light" in the world of cycling, I think that it does influence why I am not a fan of the uber-oversized tubes and tapered forks for a "normal" road bike (i.e., that takes 25mm tires and caliper brakes).* The front-end tracking of the Eriksen will be much better for you than the Moots. I bet if you called Moots, even they would tell you the same thing.

    * Not sure if that is "normal" anymore, but that is a different discussion...
     

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    Default Re: Moots Compact Sl vs Modern Ti

    My Hampsten Ti and Moots compact from 2000 to 2005 ish vintage both can and do wear 28s. 30s would be a no go. I have twin cantilevered Moots cx bikes that one is SL and one is not. I absolutely can not distinguish one from the other. One may be a couple oz lighter but in a bike with 38s on it that is not very much. difference. I would guess both bikes you mentioned are Bingham built and have the purdy stacked dime welds he is so famous for. If you can get it for a reasonable price I would think of having both. I have a compact crank on my compact Moots frame and standard cranks on my Hampsten. On rides with lots of climbing the compacts cranks are nice, but on just rollers the standard cranks keep me in the chainline and gears I like best. I am about your size and like 28s but 32s seem mo better. I was riding 25s when everyone was on 23s and moved to 28s when they were hard to find 10 years ago or so. If I was to do a do over I would have chosen the Hampsten Strada Bianche geometry for 32mm tires.
     

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    Default Re: Moots Compact Sl vs Modern Ti

    I also have a Hampsten Titanio with an Ouzo Pro that is a little short in the top tube. I do love the ride though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moke View Post
    My Hampsten Ti and Moots compact from 2000 to 2005 ish vintage both can and do wear 28s. 30s would be a no go. I have twin cantilevered Moots cx bikes that one is SL and one is not. I absolutely can not distinguish one from the other. One may be a couple oz lighter but in a bike with 38s on it that is not very much. difference. I would guess both bikes you mentioned are Bingham built and have the purdy stacked dime welds he is so famous for. If you can get it for a reasonable price I would think of having both. I have a compact crank on my compact Moots frame and standard cranks on my Hampsten. On rides with lots of climbing the compacts cranks are nice, but on just rollers the standard cranks keep me in the chainline and gears I like best. I am about your size and like 28s but 32s seem mo better. I was riding 25s when everyone was on 23s and moved to 28s when they were hard to find 10 years ago or so. If I was to do a do over I would have chosen the Hampsten Strada Bianche geometry for 32mm tires.
     

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    Default Re: Moots Compact Sl vs Modern Ti

    Quote Originally Posted by grateful View Post
    I also have a Hampsten Titanio with an Ouzo Pro that is a little short in the top tube. I do love the ride though.
    An Ouzo Pro would suggest a vintage when Moots was making ti bikes for Steve. Does it have an integrated seatpost binder bolt? Either way, the Titanio and the SL will be way more alike than different imo. By their own description, when Moots selected the tubing for the SLs, their objective was to produce a ride quality that was similar to the non-SL counterparts, the main difference being weight. Iirc, the Vamoots SL and Compact SL were about a 1/3 lb lighter than their respective non-SL counterparts (in size 56).
     

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    Default Re: Moots Compact Sl vs Modern Ti

    From what I understand is that Andy Hampsten and Kent E are friends. When Kent was with Moots they made the Hampstens for them. Then when Kent went on his own the Hampstens followed with Kent and Brad B. My Hampsten/ Moots has a little different geometry than the standard Moots of the time and the serial Number begins with with an H then numbers. If I took off all the head badges and transfers it would be very hard to distinguish the difference between the two. Now the Hampstens have some Piggy bits here and there so you could see the difference sans decals. It looks like bead blasting/polishing logos seems to be a trend in ti frames these days.
     

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    Default Re: Moots Compact Sl vs Modern Ti

    Quote Originally Posted by happycampyer View Post
    At 225 lbs, I would keep the Eriksen. I weigh 170 - 175 lbs (or at least should) and, even though that itsn't exactly "light" in the world of cycling, I think that it does influence why I am not a fan of the uber-oversized tubes and tapered forks for a "normal" road bike (i.e., that takes 25mm tires and caliper brakes).* The front-end tracking of the Eriksen will be much better for you than the Moots. I bet if you called Moots, even they would tell you the same thing.

    * Not sure if that is "normal" anymore, but that is a different discussion...
    And to qualify my opinion from above-- I weigh 145 lbs, so OOS tubes tend to beat me up more than they benefit me. Stiffer might be what you need.
     

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    Default Re: Moots Compact Sl vs Modern Ti

    Here is the Hampsten in question, it was made by Moots.
    Attached Images Attached Images
     

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    Default Re: Moots Compact Sl vs Modern Ti

    Nice looking bike there. Post another pic of it in the Hampsten gallery!
     

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