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Thread: Hive Mind: Fenders

  1. #1
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    Default Hive Mind: Fenders

    Hey Folks,

    A potential project flopped onto my desk on Friday. Before we get into it I wanted to ask a few questions - since I live in SoCal and have absolutely no need for fenders.

    1. What's your "friction point" with fenders? Where do you think you're compromising? What are the true annoyances?
    2. What brand seems to get it right?
    3. Understanding that fenders work for a range of tire widths, how much gap would you want between the tire and the inside of the fender?
    4. How far around the tire do you want the fender to wrap?
    5. How far around the wheel do you want your front/rear fender to wrap? (e.g. 7:30 on the front / 8:00 on the back)

    Thanks
    -T-
    elysian
    Tom Tolhurst

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    Default Re: Hive Mind: Fenders

    If itís an aesthetic bike run the sims works hammered fenders (honjos but you can get black. For an ideal fenderline look up dazza or jp weigle

    For non precious bikes I like the sks fenders. Iíd break them while couriering, and they were easier to pull off or replace. However, they donít look as nice. On my precious bike I run metal fenders.

    Size wise you want the fender 10mm wider than the tire as a rule. You can go less, but 10mm gives 5mm per side which will let debris clear and not jam.

    Finally, if you want a not fiddly set Iíd go sks or Portland design works. Iíve had great experience with both. Depending where they live, what kind of riding consider buddy flaps. Most fenders will take modification, so keep that in mind

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    Default Re: Hive Mind: Fenders

    https://www.renehersecycles.com/tubu...r-fender-news/

    BQ has been there/done that. My wife has a Specialized Globe something or other with painted metal fenders from the factory and they’ve been rock solid. I just use Planet Bike Cascadia fenders on my Poprad and they do the trick as well, only in plastic. I’d prefer metal, but I always worry about having a breakaway option if I lodge a stick or a rock in between the fender and the tire.
    rw saunders
    hey, how lucky can one man get.

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    Default Re: Hive Mind: Fenders

    1) I like a really simple aesthetic. The fewer lines the better. As long as setup is straight forward I would rather take more time installing than have nuts and bolts showing.

    5) I don't ride in a line with others often enough to worry about buddy flaps. In my basement I have to maneuver my bikes standing on the rear wheel and most fenders are long enough to scrape and get in the way. I deal with it until I can't anymore then I cut the rear fender. Front fender coverage is very important though.

    In general they all seem to need a little customizing so making that easy is a plus.

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    Default Re: Hive Mind: Fenders

    In the PNW, where a rain bike is used for 4-6 months, I have found the Crud MKII road fenders are really quite well designed and function nearly as well as more expensive Honjo's or Velo Orange versions I'd used in the past. They are light, easy to mount/dismount, silent over rough stuff and handle a 28c road tire. They come in black but I've painted them to match my frame with a rattle can. Unless you run a dedicated fendered bike, I can't see any option winning on price and function.

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    Default Re: Hive Mind: Fenders

    I thought the Civia Calhoun fenders were a terrific design.
    First off, whatever plastic they were made from was lightweight, didn’t rattle, and was tough enough to last several seasons.
    Next, they were super sharp with a silver (vacuum-metalized) center stripe and black edges. Because they looked like a million bucks I’m guessing the plastic was clear and the finish was applied on the inside.
    Third, the hardware was not bad. Yeah it was basic Bluemels-level stuff but hey if you want to gussy it up then it’s your party. Cry if you wanr to.
    Finally, the rubber ends were not great but you could add buddy flaps front and rear to keep your toes and buds dry.
    Trod Harland, Physical Educator

    Not everything that is faced can be changed, but nothing can be changed until it is faced. ó James Baldwin

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    Default Re: Hive Mind: Fenders

    As I have posted before, I like carbon fibre fenders (see picture).

    For my next bike I have ordered some stainless steel fenders from Gilles Berthoud. They are not significantly different in weight from most aluminium fenders and can be bought undrilled and without fixing hardware, which gives plenty of fitting options for the builder (no pre-drilled holes not quite in the right place). https://berthoudcycles.fr/en/149-width-50mm


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    Default Re: Hive Mind: Fenders

    I hate to say it, but I don't know what brand these are. If someone can add something, please do.

    Fenders/mudguards are absolutely worth it if someone commutes or will see wet roads with any frequency. Many provide poor coverage, with the ends, especially the front fender/mudguard being far too high, allowing the rider's feet to become wet and fouling the drivetrain at the crank. Good fenders will have a flap that extends way down.

    They're a PITA to set up properly but once done, they're practically invisible to the rider in terms of the overall experience.

    This is my Indy Fab. At this point it's Seven years old almost to the day. I had it built with fenders and large tires as part of the spec. There are ultimately compromises involved but this bike is a terrific bike for the wet miles.

    As to compromises? They're occasionally finicky to set up. They add weight and aero drag. It's minimal but noticeable. But on wet riding days it's not important. I had some of the aluminum kind that people rave about. I hated them because they felt super flimsy and rattled with the aluminum installation rods and leather washers. No fender really looks good. Some look more attractive than others. The ones I have are ugly as sin but super effective. These are 38mm tires.

    You do want several millimeters of tire clearance, perhaps up to a centimeter. More and you get spray. Less and sand and grit grinds on the inside of the fender.

    If you get a custom, make sure the builder knows you want fenders and what size tire you want. It matters for spacing. This Indy Fab is 43.5 cm chain stays to accommodate the fenders and fatish tires. The fork is also important. Communicate this stuff well so the bike can be sized properly. Without these designed into the frame, installation can be even more problematic.

    Hope this helps answer some of the OP's questions.

    La Cheeserie!

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    Default Re: Hive Mind: Fenders

    I used Honjo fenders but I like a lot about the fenders that SAAB has on his bike.
    But the thing I don't like both SKS and most plastic fenders is the clamp that they use for the fork/seatstay bridge.
    The pinch clamp eventually comes loose and rattles.

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    Default Re: Hive Mind: Fenders

    1. One compromise that can arise is when installing one on a rim brake bike. I'm not referring to the brake caliper reach but securing the fender at the seat stay bridge. With my disc brake equipped Woodrup, the bridge was made to accept the fender's fixing bolt since there is no conflict with the bolt of the rim brakes. It makes installation and removal significantly easier, with no clamp/bracket to faff over.
    2. Another vote for PDW metal fenders. They also take paint well.
    5. I think this is much more important for the front than it is for the rear if I'm being selfish. If you are worried about the person behind you, then the rear should go as low as the front. The front should go as low as practicable, so I guess 7:30 would be the bare minimum. On the Woodrup, I have the Enve all road fork with "integrated" fender (the rear has the PDW fender mentioned above). It comes down to about 8:00 or 8:30, and it's utterly useless at keeping my feet dry.
    Chikashi Miyamoto

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    Default Re: Hive Mind: Fenders

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Jacobs View Post
    As I have posted before, I like carbon fibre fenders (see picture).

    For my next bike I have ordered some stainless steel fenders from Gilles Berthoud. They are not significantly different in weight from most aluminium fenders and can be bought undrilled and without fixing hardware, which gives plenty of fitting options for the builder (no pre-drilled holes not quite in the right place). https://berthoudcycles.fr/en/149-width-50mm

    Paul, did you get the carbon mudguard from Swarf? I was interested in them but was too late; they ran into sourcing the fixings and I believe they eventually gave up on supplying them.
    Chikashi Miyamoto

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    Default Re: Hive Mind: Fenders

    Quote Originally Posted by Chik View Post
    1. One compromise that can arise is when installing one on a rim brake bike. I'm not referring to the brake caliper reach but securing the fender at the seat stay bridge. With my disc brake equipped Woodrup, the bridge was made to accept the fender's fixing bolt since there is no conflict with the bolt of the rim brakes. It makes installation and removal significantly easier, with no clamp/bracket to faff over.
    2. Another vote for PDW metal fenders. They also take paint well.
    5. I think this is much more important for the front than it is for the rear if I'm being selfish. If you are worried about the person behind you, then the rear should go as low as the front. The front should go as low as practicable, so I guess 7:30 would be the bare minimum. On the Woodrup, I have the Enve all road fork with "integrated" fender (the rear has the PDW fender mentioned above). It comes down to about 8:00 or 8:30, and it's utterly useless at keeping my feet dry.
    Everyone needs to know about Sheldon nuts for fender mounting with caliper or center pull brakes on frames with recessed mounting.

    https://www.harriscyclery.net/produc...t-set-2467.htm

    They should probably be included in any top quality fender package.

    Re: fenders

    The old Bluemels fenders made out of thin plastic and bendy metal stays were infuriating but fit even the least compatible racing frame. Bending the stays was a high art and I knew at least one person who would use a bit of heat to reshape the fenders themselves.

    Seems like there is a yin/yang between making them too flimsy (break and fall off) and too durable (cannot be made to fit well.)

    Also I like round fenders that follow the arc of the tire side-to-side rather than squared-off flat-topped fenders. Maybe the squared-off are better at clearing water but the rounded ones usually seem to fit in smaller spaces better.

    I think the quick retention system used by Crudcatcher (basically rubber bands like used on blinking lights and computer mounts) is great but wish the nuts/bolts were regularly available nuts/bolts and the stays were better spaced.

    The most irritating parts of fenders is fitting them on the bike, keeping them from rubbing the tire etc., fixing a flat in the cold/wet with them on the bike, not having them actually block any water once installed and losing proprietary mounting bits during the spring/summer when they are not on the bike.

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    Default Re: Hive Mind: Fenders



    It took me a while to locate this chart.
    rw saunders
    hey, how lucky can one man get.

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    Default Re: Hive Mind: Fenders

    Awesome chart. The Enve thing is a douche in both directions.
    Chikashi Miyamoto

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    Default Re: Hive Mind: Fenders

    Quote Originally Posted by j44ke View Post
    Everyone needs to know about Sheldon nuts for fender mounting with caliper or center pull brakes on frames with recessed mounting.
    Yes


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    Default Re: Hive Mind: Fenders

    Quote Originally Posted by Chik View Post
    Paul, did you get the carbon mudguard from Swarf? I was interested in them but was too late; they ran into sourcing the fixings and I believe they eventually gave up on supplying them.
    From Velo Duo Cycles in the UK https://www.veloduo.co.uk/collection...18119976353849

    My only reservation about them is that the front fenders are slightly shorter than I would like in the 650 size.

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    Default Re: Hive Mind: Fenders

    Quote Originally Posted by rwsaunders View Post


    It took me a while to locate this chart.
    That chart show a wrong front length. You'll get your feet soaked. I like my front fenders the way Saab2000 set them up.
    Last edited by sk_tle; 11-15-2020 at 06:09 PM. Reason: typo
    --
    T h o m a s

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    Default Re: Hive Mind: Fenders

    Quote Originally Posted by Saab2000 View Post
    I hate to say it, but I don't know what brand these are. If someone can add something, please do.

    Fenders/mudguards are absolutely worth it if someone commutes or will see wet roads with any frequency. Many provide poor coverage, with the ends, especially the front fender/mudguard being far too high, allowing the rider's feet to become wet and fouling the drivetrain at the crank. Good fenders will have a flap that extends way down.

    They're a PITA to set up properly but once done, they're practically invisible to the rider in terms of the overall experience.

    This is my Indy Fab. At this point it's Seven years old almost to the day. I had it built with fenders and large tires as part of the spec. There are ultimately compromises involved but this bike is a terrific bike for the wet miles.

    As to compromises? They're occasionally finicky to set up. They add weight and aero drag. It's minimal but noticeable. But on wet riding days it's not important. I had some of the aluminum kind that people rave about. I hated them because they felt super flimsy and rattled with the aluminum installation rods and leather washers. No fender really looks good. Some look more attractive than others. The ones I have are ugly as sin but super effective. These are 38mm tires.

    You do want several millimeters of tire clearance, perhaps up to a centimeter. More and you get spray. Less and sand and grit grinds on the inside of the fender.

    If you get a custom, make sure the builder knows you want fenders and what size tire you want. It matters for spacing. This Indy Fab is 43.5 cm chain stays to accommodate the fenders and fatish tires. The fork is also important. Communicate this stuff well so the bike can be sized properly. Without these designed into the frame, installation can be even more problematic.

    Hope this helps answer some of the OP's questions.

    Those are sks chromoplastic longboards

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    Default Re: Hive Mind: Fenders

    Quote Originally Posted by Saab2000 View Post
    {snip} No fender really looks good. {snip}
    I disagree. Part of the reason I have always wanted a 'rain bike' is because the look of a proper steel or Ti (or carbon Parlee/HampCo Tournesol *drool*) rain bike with a horizontal top tube is so damn classy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chik View Post
    Paul, did you get the carbon mudguard from Swarf? I was interested in them but was too late; they ran into sourcing the fixings and I believe they eventually gave up on supplying them.
    I have a set that I have never used. Whilst I've always harboured dreams of a really nice rain bike (which makes sense to few people other than me), I've never actually got around to building one - and these days I doubt I'd ride in the rain even if I did have one.

    Full fitting kit (actually I had to re-buy the Velo Orange stays and fitments as I lost the originals) and Sheldon Nuts available, plus some extra leather washers and such like if I can find it all. For the right money I'd let them go...

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    Default Re: Hive Mind: Fenders

    Quote Originally Posted by sk_tle View Post
    That chart show a wrong front length. You'll get your feet soaked. I like my front fenders the way Saab2000 set them up.
    Exactly. The spray pattern off of the front wheel is the same as the back wheel. Even a fender/flap at the “saint” level may spray some water on your feet at the bottom of the pedal stroke. Saab definitely has his priorities straight.

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