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Thread: Hambini on threaded vs pf bb is very informative

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    Default Hambini on threaded vs pf bb is very informative

    [url=https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3l6EcBg9EPA#]Pressfit vs Threaded Bottom Brackets, Pressfit is King. A 5 year old says so. - YouTube[/url
    Excuse my immaturity if I find him funny as well.
    Add the ,close bracket, at the end of the link to watch.
    Last edited by rabo; 05-28-2020 at 04:54 PM.
     

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    Default Re: Hambini on threaded vs pf bb is very informal

    I find him funny too. Then again, I don't ride a Canyon with Zipp wheels. One of his bottom brackets solved a nagging creak on a friend's bike that no other bb would solve so his product seems legitimate.
     

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    Default Re: Hambini on threaded vs pf bb is very informal

    i only understood the word wanker and bb90. the rest was over my head.
     

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    Default Re: Hambini on threaded vs pf bb is very informal

    'Informal' or 'informative?"

    They're both, actually, come to think of it.
     

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    Default Re: Hambini on threaded vs pf bb is very informal

    I wish he would go into the same level of detail with the actual engineering issues as he does with the variety of ways SRAM, FLO and Cannondale engineers ought to be buggered. I might learn something if he did. I've watched several. It's all "I measured this, it's wrong, it's shite". I get it dood. Teach us something.
    Zuzu’s pedals

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    Default Re: Hambini on threaded vs pf bb is very informal

    I wish he would go into the same level of detail with the actual engineering issues as he does with the variety of ways SRAM, FLO and Cannondale engineers ought to be buggered. I might learn something if he did. I've watched several. It's all "I measured this, it's wrong, it's shite". I get it dood. Teach us something.
    I think he does! But you have to watch for a bit, and wade through all the cursing. Keep in mind that he is an engineer by trade who is trying to help and not a professional You-tuber or a professor.

    I think he is great and very informative. If you watch the GCN show he was a guest and it was fantastic!
     

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    Default Re: Hambini on threaded vs pf bb is very informal

    I checked out after the Cycling Weekly kerfluffle, which is no great loss since every video is more or the less the same. Take a cycling product, find the tolerance issues, string together some swears and insults, fin.

    Any critic should also be able to admit when they make a mistake.
     

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    Default Re: Hambini on threaded vs pf bb is very informal

    Informative is what I meant, sorry.
    Interesting to see Look and Time having the highest precision, and the big brands except Giant being off.
    Don’t know what his sample size is, but he knows his engineering for sure.
     

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    Default Re: Hambini on threaded vs pf bb is very informal

    This latest was very informative TO ME...... I always thought the threaded BB was far superior to a PF but this vid debunked that for me..... the fact that even though they don’t creak, doesn’t mean they don’t have tolerance issues of their own.....

    Supposedly going to talk about Campagnolo UT in the next one, a subject he’s avoided until now.....

    I don’t like the use of the C word..... just a generational thing I think.
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    Default Re: Hambini on threaded vs pf bb is very informal

    bearings with Hambini on GCN

    Take care of yourself in this time of crisis and realize sadness, anger and grief are part of the process Brian Clare

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    Default Re: Hambini on threaded vs pf bb is very informal

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffrey Borisch View Post
    I wish he would go into the same level of detail with the actual engineering issues as he does with the variety of ways SRAM, FLO and Cannondale engineers ought to be buggered. I might learn something if he did. I've watched several. It's all "I measured this, it's wrong, it's shite". I get it dood. Teach us something.
    He has only one point - tolerances. The ability to hold production within the sweet spot is everything,
    and is what he's correcting for with every example he fixes. He's explained it in multiple videos,
    often calling out the brands for nonsense published tolerances, like off by 100x what really works.

    Everything that causes the bearing problems is too big or too small, not circular, not aligned.
    As he says often, in his day job as an engineer, if his work had the sloppy tolerances of the bike biz,
    he'd be fired.

    -g
    EPOst hoc ergo propter hoc

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    Default Re: Hambini on threaded vs pf bb is very informal

    Quote Originally Posted by GrantM View Post
    He has only one point - tolerances. The ability to hold production within the sweet spot is everything,
    and is what he's correcting for with every example he fixes. He's explained it in multiple videos,
    often calling out the brands for nonsense published tolerances, like off by 100x what really works.

    Everything that causes the bearing problems is too big or too small, not circular, not aligned.
    As he says often, in his day job as an engineer, if his work had the sloppy tolerances of the bike biz,
    he'd be fired.

    -g
    Definitely, definitely. I'd be wrong to say I've learned nothing from him. The GCN clip on bearings was good. It was what originally sent me down the Hambini squirrel hole. I will also credit his segment on why he thinks GXP is a bad design.

    I don't doubt his credentials. He just wastes my time with useless insults. But whatever gets the likes...
    Zuzu’s pedals

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    Default Re: Hambini on threaded vs pf bb is very informal

    Quote Originally Posted by GrantM View Post
    He has only one point - tolerances. The ability to hold production within the sweet spot is everything,
    and is what he's correcting for with every example he fixes. He's explained it in multiple videos,
    often calling out the brands for nonsense published tolerances, like off by 100x what really works.

    Everything that causes the bearing problems is too big or too small, not circular, not aligned.
    As he says often, in his day job as an engineer, if his work had the sloppy tolerances of the bike biz,
    he'd be fired.

    -g
    Which in turn brings to the point of the final assembly. There is a reason behind that, just take apart a few "off the shelf" bikes and you'll see why things go wrong.
    Any bike, not only the >£4k ones, needs to be assembled correctly.
    There is not excuse for fitting bottom brackets, whatever type they are, without any grease or compound. And there should be no excuse for messing up the engineering to make for the parts to be "tossed in" the frame. Some weeks I get 50% of my jobs in sorting out the usual Cannondale, Scott, Specialized, Canyon, etc. that are put together so badly that's hard to believe. Last was an S-Works disk where they didn't even bothered to greased the tru-axles and them things were all white with corrosion. Terrible.
    Andrea "Gattonero" Cattolico, head mechanic @Condor Cycles London


    "Caron, non ti crucciare:
    vuolsi così colà dove si puote
    ciò che si vuole, e più non dimandare"

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    Default Re: Hambini on threaded vs pf bb is very informal

    Quote Originally Posted by Gattonero View Post
    Which in turn brings to the point of the final assembly. There is a reason behind that, just take apart a few "off the shelf" bikes and you'll see why things go wrong.
    Any bike, not only the >£4k ones, needs to be assembled correctly.
    That's why I don't subscribe to “<bike company> is doing bad engineering” comments. Regardless of what the ad copy claims, bikes, as load bearing mechanical devices, are not too complex (low speed, low torque). Some components have better design, some worse, but very few if at all are so terribly they shouldn't be used.

    Engineering is always a compromise on spec: $, weight, longevity, required maintenance, &c. PMs and engineers spend very tedious meetings about that. But no engineer would design stuff to fail during intended use. What few do is take bad installation into the design, especially as more than once, that's a different dept. I've worked on PLM systems, and seen some of the bottlenecks. It's very easy to fail there, as evident.

    Press-fits isn't a concept unique to bikes, and even in bikes they work great. Just consider how many press-fit BBs frames were sold in the last decade – a lot are still being ridden without a creak (there's a selection bias here: a story about a perfectly functioning BB is rarely one to share.) But when you're shaving seconds in an assembly line, or employ under trained staff to save on wages, or skip on QC, you'd get misaligned installations, trashed bearings, and Hambini videos.
     

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    Default Re: Hambini on threaded vs pf bb is very informal

    Whether you like him or not- His site is thought provoking.
    For me- I had ah-hah moments about things like GXP BB's that eat left side bearings. Also early Specialized PF30 frames where bearings are toast in less than 1000 miles.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffrey Borisch View Post
    Definitely, definitely. I'd be wrong to say I've learned nothing from him. The GCN clip on bearings was good. It was what originally sent me down the Hambini squirrel hole. I will also credit his segment on why he thinks GXP is a bad design.

    I don't doubt his credentials. He just wastes my time with useless insults. But whatever gets the likes...
     

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    Default Re: Hambini on threaded vs pf bb is very informal

    By the way, didn´t Hambini attack one of the framebuilders here in the forum? I think it was Filament with a misaligned BB...

    Another guy whose videos are quite informative (but less entertaining) is Raoul Luescher of luescher teknik, who cuts carbon frames of the big companies...


    P.S. Hambini´s website with a chart of misaligned PFBBs:
    Bottom Bracket Pressfit and Creaking, an Engineering Analysis - Hambini Engineering
     

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    Default Re: Hambini on threaded vs pf bb is very informal

    In defence of the accusation that he’s a one trick pony and only talks about tolerances.....the latest video talked quite a lot about aerodynamics, the point about wind tunnels have been made redundant now that there are better,cheaper and easier ways to quantify drag, Interested me.....

    Still didn’t mention Campagnolo UT though....’rolled eyes emoji’
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    Default Re: Hambini on threaded vs pf bb is very informal

    His study on aero wheels was very controversial on the forums at the time, but I found it brilliant and levels above what the cycling industry currently does. If I am not wrong, he is an aerodynamicist working for the Eurofighter, so he obviously knows his stuff.
     

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    Default Re: Hambini on threaded vs pf bb is very informal

    Quote Originally Posted by snotrockets View Post
    That's why I don't subscribe to “<bike company> is doing bad engineering” comments. Regardless of what the ad copy claims, bikes, as load bearing mechanical devices, are not too complex (low speed, low torque). Some components have better design, some worse, but very few if at all are so terribly they shouldn't be used.

    Engineering is always a compromise on spec: $, weight, longevity, required maintenance, &c. PMs and engineers spend very tedious meetings about that. But no engineer would design stuff to fail during intended use. What few do is take bad installation into the design, especially as more than once, that's a different dept. I've worked on PLM systems, and seen some of the bottlenecks. It's very easy to fail there, as evident.

    Press-fits isn't a concept unique to bikes, and even in bikes they work great. Just consider how many press-fit BBs frames were sold in the last decade – a lot are still being ridden without a creak (there's a selection bias here: a story about a perfectly functioning BB is rarely one to share.) But when you're shaving seconds in an assembly line, or employ under trained staff to save on wages, or skip on QC, you'd get misaligned installations, trashed bearings, and Hambini videos.
    Those tedious meetings are not guarantee of things actually working, several examples can be made about engineering that was flawed to boot.
    Problem is, when the tedious meetings think they know all. You have to speak with the guy who doesn't just intall 8k cranks/year, you need to find the one who installes/removes/services 2-3k bikes/year to know the potential for things to go wrong.
    Lots of things are though to work well around the coffee machine, but a lot happens when you're out in the rain.
    Andrea "Gattonero" Cattolico, head mechanic @Condor Cycles London


    "Caron, non ti crucciare:
    vuolsi così colà dove si puote
    ciò che si vuole, e più non dimandare"

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    Default Re: Hambini on threaded vs pf bb is very informal

    Quote Originally Posted by corko View Post
    In defence of the accusation that he’s a one trick pony and only talks about tolerances.....the latest video talked quite a lot about aerodynamics, the point about wind tunnels have been made redundant now that there are better,cheaper and easier ways to quantify drag, Interested me.....
    Certainly it was not my intention to suggest (in the slightest) that he's a "one trick pony". Couldn't be further from what i meant.
    My response was in the context of the threaded vs press fit bb topic, and not characterizing his areas of expertise whatsoever.
    I simply meant that it's all about the tolerances to fix bb issues.

    -g
    EPOst hoc ergo propter hoc

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