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Thread: Gravel Goes Legit - New Shimano GRX Groups

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    Default Re: Gravel Goes Legit - New Shimano GRX Groups

    Quote Originally Posted by bigbill View Post
    A good example of bikepacking is the Race Across Texas (RAT). Riders have the option of point to point with some support or fully self supported. They leave Texarkana and finish in Tucumcari, NM. Riders have to report in and follow a certain route which almost all gravel or dirt roads. Some of the stories and photos are epic. "I was riding a red dirt road in west TX and just stopped on the side of the road and camped". Some will do a night or two in a hotel, but the top finishers usually camp their way across the state.

    RAT 1: Race Across Texas, 218 - BIKEPACKING.com
    I'd love to see those maps.

    edit: Easily pieced together from this I recon.

    rat1 | Towns & Distances
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    Default Re: Gravel Goes Legit - New Shimano GRX Groups

    a5l4rqptzjn21.jpg

    Quote Originally Posted by thollandpe View Post
    Prostate therapy for middle-aged guys.
    Sometimes you just gotta roll with it.

    - Garro
    Last edited by steve garro; 05-20-2019 at 11:32 AM.
    Steve Garro, Coconino Cycles.
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    Default Re: Gravel Goes Legit - New Shimano GRX Groups

    Quote Originally Posted by steve garro View Post
    You spent it on the supplies in your bags.

    Duh !!
    ;)
    Erm... so if you're not riding you live on thin air and sun, and you only buy food when going "touring"?
    Have you realized what "extra money" actually means?
    Andrea "Gattonero" Cattolico, head mechanic @Condor Cycles London


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    ciò che si vuole, e più non dimandare"

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    Default Re: Gravel Goes Legit - New Shimano GRX Groups

    Quote Originally Posted by Gattonero View Post
    Erm... so if you're not riding you live on thin air and sun, and you only buy food when going "touring"?
    Have you realized what "extra money" actually means?
    I guess I'm pretty fucking dense, why don't you spell it out?

    - Garro.
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    Default Re: Gravel Goes Legit - New Shimano GRX Groups

    Not to play the UN General secretary here, but I think there is some miscommunication going on, both language and generational.

    In the US, touring was a sort of roving homelessness that depended on the kindness of strangers and played a central part for a lot of people in the celebration of the bicentennial in 1976. A lot of urban kids on the coasts re-finding the hospitality of people in the interior. And plenty I am sure vice versa. Not a lot of money spent.

    In the 1980’s, organized tours started up and luxury businesses like Backroads and Vermont Country Cyclers started selling touring packages that required little baggage carrying and lots of money.

    In the current era, everything is very quickly commodified, so even the smallest DIY effort gets uploaded to Etsy and monetized fetishized and instagramized. Everything now, compared to touring then, feels more expensive. I cannot believe that all those kids on Radavist (which I love to read and check every other day for new content - a guilty pleasure) are living by the skin on their teeth when I see the equipment they are using. There is just a lot more money. I don’t think there are a lot more people doing it though.

    In the past, no one cared about cyclists in the US so it was easy to do something off grid. And stuff was cheaper as a percentage of total income I think. Now we have bike equipment manufacturers like Shimano making purpose-built gravel groupsets, essentially codifying what people here have been doing informally for a while.

    These definitional debates always feel a bit academic. In order to monetize something, you have to create a category. If you don’t have a category, it is harder to brand, price, control. Freedom is the opposite.

    I saw a Bruce Gordon touring bike for sale the other day though, and it was still too expensive. Collector prices now.
    Last edited by j44ke; 05-21-2019 at 12:04 PM.
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    Default Re: Gravel Goes Legit - New Shimano GRX Groups

    Quote Originally Posted by steve garro View Post

    Backpacking you ride not so far for a lot more money.


    Important distinctions
    The way I read this:
    Bikepacking is trendy, it's the new "in" thing. Lotsa folks have spent a LOT of money on bikepacking gear they rarely, if ever, actually use. It's not at all uncommon to see folks show up to a Thurs night MTB group ride with a full frame bag....and it's not like it's just been left on since they did that big four day ride last week. They ain't never done a four day ride.

    There's a lot of people who romanticize things like the Tour Divide, AZT, CTR, etc, they buy all the gear, but then realize they're just not the kind of person who's gonna go ride 100 off-road miles a day for several days in a row with a bunch of sh*t on their bike.

    I have a partial frame bag, seat bag, and handlebar bag system, and that stuff ain't cheap. I've only done a couple overnight rides, but not more than one night out. I also don't leave the bags on unless I'm actually using them tho.
    Last edited by dgaddis; 05-21-2019 at 12:59 PM.
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    Default Re: Gravel Goes Legit - New Shimano GRX Groups

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    Quote Originally Posted by dgaddis View Post
    The way I read this:
    Bikepacking is trendy, it's the new "in" thing. Lotsa folks have spent a LOT of money on bikepacking gear they rarely, if ever, actually use. It's not at all uncommon to see folks show up to a Thurs night MTB group ride with a full frame bag....and it's not like it's just been left on since they did that big four day ride last week. They ain't never done a four day ride.

    There's a lot of people who romanticize things like the Tour Divide, AZT, CTR, etc, they buy all the gear, but then realize they're just not the kind of person who's gonna go ride 100 off-road miles a day for several days in a row with a bunch of sh*t on their bike.

    I have a partial frame bag, seat bag, and handlebar bag system, and that stuff ain't cheap. I've only done a couple overnight rides, but not more than one night out. I also don't leave the bags on unless I'm actually using them tho.
    Also, what if you need full-on winter gear and a week or more of food?

    What if you have six to eight gallons of water and food for a week, like this picture?

    Where does that fit in your frame bag?

    To me, this is the distinction.

    Bike-Packing requires frequent re-supply as you just do not have room - for instance, I was just near where this picture was taken 20 years ago, and people were rolling through on the Baja Divide route which traces this path now, and they were at a critical juncture for water, forcing them to do some really, really ugly days distance wise as they couldn't carry the water volume to do it leisurely.

    See that "water pig" on the front rack here?

    That's a gallon in itself........or, pretty much your whole frame bag, or you can gypsy-rig your bottles to fork legs and stays and talk about how panniers don't have clearance........see?


    - Garro.
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    Default Re: Gravel Goes Legit - New Shimano GRX Groups

    The guys doing races are riding, and packing, very differently than the folks 'touring' offroad. I sponsored and built the wheels for Neil Beltchenko for a few years, when he did the Tour Divide he was one of a handful of people that beat the previous years record, he finished 3rd, about an hour behind 1st, and he averaged something like 197 miles per day. That's just nutty. He wasn't going fast most of the time, he just didn't stop hardly. He averaged less than 4hrs of sleep per night for the two weeks it took to do the 2700 mile route.

    When he won the Stagecoach 400 he only slept a few hours because he didn't have anything else to do...part of the route involved catching a ferry, and he got there early in the morning before the ferry was open, so he took a nap.

    As Joe Rogan would say, that's a different kind of human.
    Last edited by dgaddis; 05-21-2019 at 02:35 PM.
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    Default Re: Gravel Goes Legit - New Shimano GRX Groups

    Quote Originally Posted by dgaddis View Post
    The guys doing races are riding, and packing, very differently than the folks 'touring' offroad.
    Nobody is questioning that.

    - Garro.
    Steve Garro, Coconino Cycles.
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    Default Re: Gravel Goes Legit - New Shimano GRX Groups

    Quote Originally Posted by steve garro View Post
    I guess I'm pretty fucking dense, why don't you spell it out?

    - Garro.
    Hey Garro, you cool your jets, would you?

    Since we don't understand each other, I'll make an example:
    If your are staying at home, you have to fill your fridge. If you're out on a bicycle you have to fill your panniers.
    Surely, the latter involves a lot more food, but that's not "a lot of money", unless you've left yourself unsupported logistically and financially, then a fiver a day becomes "a lot of money".

    There's an ex colleague of mine who's riding from London to New Zealand (a few miles, uh?) and since he's riding for a charity cause he's certainly not spending much money at all. He planned, he got himslef backed up, he's doing fine.
    Andrea "Gattonero" Cattolico, head mechanic @Condor Cycles London


    "Caron, non ti crucciare:
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    Default Re: Gravel Goes Legit - New Shimano GRX Groups

    Quote Originally Posted by ryker View Post
    They're made for hydros only. If you want to use mechanical brakes, you can use regular Shimano road levers with GRX derailleurs and crankset.
    Thank you! LBS couldn’t say and so many skus ... I knew that y’all would have the answer.
     

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    Default Re: Gravel Goes Legit - New Shimano GRX Groups

    Touring--I'd define as getting on your bike and getting off of it someplace other than your residence and staying a night or two or........
    Quote Originally Posted by Gattonero View Post
    Define "touring" in the first place!
     

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    Default Re: Gravel Goes Legit - New Shimano GRX Groups

    I was vaguely interested in seeing how this thread had evolved. Now I'm not. Could you guys stay on topic please before this one gets locked down? and cut out the person-to-person jabs; that's not what this place is about.
     

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    Default Re: Gravel Goes Legit - New Shimano GRX Groups

    Back on topic- I saw a GRX 810 group in the flesh a couple weeks ago-

    I liked the cranks, derailleurs, and the fact that the left lever had no shorter guts (bike was a single).
    I didn't love the levers- They looked king of cheap compared to the other parts. Also didn't like that you could only get a cassette up to a 42 top cog. Seems like they should make a 10-46 or 10-50 so you can use an XTR rear and have some real range with a single.
     

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    Default Re: Gravel Goes Legit - New Shimano GRX Groups

    My new bike ( Specialized Roubaix 2020 ) has a DI-2 GRX rear derailleur to go with the rest of the Ultegra parts.
    A bit longer cage and a clutch but not sure if there are other difference from Ultegra.
    Shifts great.
     

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    Default Re: Gravel Goes Legit - New Shimano GRX Groups

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveP View Post
    My new bike ( Specialized Roubaix 2020 ) has a DI-2 GRX rear derailleur to go with the rest of the Ultegra parts.
    A bit longer cage and a clutch but not sure if there are other difference from Ultegra.
    Shifts great.
    Slightly different finish

    M
     

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    Default Re: Gravel Goes Legit - New Shimano GRX Groups

    Quote Originally Posted by boots2000 View Post
    Back on topic- I saw a GRX 810 group in the flesh a couple weeks ago-

    I liked the cranks, derailleurs, and the fact that the left lever had no shorter guts (bike was a single).
    I didn't love the levers- They looked king of cheap compared to the other parts. Also didn't like that you could only get a cassette up to a 42 top cog. Seems like they should make a 10-46 or 10-50 so you can use an XTR rear and have some real range with a single.
    I suppose that functionality comes first, it's meant to get muddy and dusty, not just to be taken pictures of. But then, it's all about the real price when fully available, I won't expect it to have a premium price tag.
    My main gripe, is the current offering for cranksets: the 2x seem high-geared, a 44-28 would be much better than the current 46-30.
    Andrea "Gattonero" Cattolico, head mechanic @Condor Cycles London


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    ciò che si vuole, e più non dimandare"

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    Default Re: Gravel Goes Legit - New Shimano GRX Groups

    Quote Originally Posted by boots2000 View Post
    Back on topic- I saw a GRX 810 group in the flesh a couple weeks ago-

    I liked the cranks, derailleurs, and the fact that the left lever had no shorter guts (bike was a single).
    I didn't love the levers- They looked king of cheap compared to the other parts. Also didn't like that you could only get a cassette up to a 42 top cog. Seems like they should make a 10-46 or 10-50 so you can use an XTR rear and have some real range with a single.
    Wasn't there some multi-group spanning compatibility with this system? Or am I thinking of SRAM AXS?
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    Default Re: Gravel Goes Legit - New Shimano GRX Groups

    My take is that you'll be able to use a current 11sp Mtb Shimano mech with GRX shifters?
    Andrea "Gattonero" Cattolico, head mechanic @Condor Cycles London


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    Default Re: Gravel Goes Legit - New Shimano GRX Groups

    The Shimano rep I talked to about it said it was considered a road product and would be compatible with their road parts- I'd guess the cable pull is in that ecosystem.

    I'm keen on some options for a power meter with that 48/31 crankset that I hope are coming down the pike. I would hope left side Stages at least.
     

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