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Thread: Give me lugs or give me death.

  1. #1
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    Default Give me lugs or give me death.

    I have come to an epiphany- Give me lugs on my bike!

    What is it that gives bikes joined with lugs such a different ride (much better IMO) than tube to tube joining methods, regardless of materials?

    I have owned several lugged and multioque (my term) carbon bikes bikes from the same (and different) companies and I would gladly take the gram hit (if there even is one) and the stronger stable ride of the lugged frame anyday.

    When I reflect on the best bikes I have owned its always the Time, Look 585 ultra, 595 origin, Colnago Master and Extreme Power = all with lugs.

    Disappointing bikes were the Trek varieties (although some were quite good), welded steel Bianchi boron, Look 586, Cervelos, Specialized, Cannondales, and Santa Cruz aluminum.

    I havent tried a lugged ti and lugged aluminum frame (not that I have seen any) but reflecting on my experience, it seems like the common denominator regardless of materials has been the lugs.

    Thoughts or similar experiences?
     

  2. #2
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    mmm.... lugged ti



    jimi
     

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    Do you think that lugs are the cause of what you like about your bikes, or a symptom? That is, are builders that use lugs likely to be the same that would design a bike you'd like?

    Have you ridden a lugged bike you didn't like? I have.

    I think there were more salient features that led to my dislike of a particular bike, be it tubing choice, geometry, etc, than how they were joined, lugged or otherwise.
     

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    there's nothing about the joining method that can be shown to affect the ride in any quantifiable way, so as much as i like lugs there can only be my impression that such a bike would somehow ride differently (because of the joining method). life is built as much on impression as it is on facts, so you'll not get me disputing your experience. but i will say that my experience is not yours: my tig'd bikes ride just as nicely, be it ti, steel, alu. it's in the greater design, not the joining method atmo.
    Qui plume a, guerre a. Ce monde est un vaste temple dédié à la discorde.

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    the mind wants what the mind wants.

    perception.
    Dave Bradley...not the grumpy old Hogwarts caretaker "Mr. Filch" or the star of American Ninja 3 and 4.

    formerly "Mr.President"

  6. #6
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    I am looking for the common denominator and think its a bit crazy, but it almost makes sense, that it is the lugs.

    I havent ridden enough lugged bikes (other than those listed) to really tell or have one I didnt like. I am quite sure there is a lot more into a great riding frame than just the method of joining the tubes but is there magic in lugs?
     

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by coloclimber View Post
    I am quite sure there is a lot more into a great riding frame than just the method of joining the tubes but is there magic in lugs?
    no atmo.
     

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by e-RICHIE View Post
    no atmo.
    no magic? This isn't e-RICHIE?????
    Attached Images Attached Images
     

  9. #9
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    Wow that's offensive to the world of comics anywho...moving on.

    Sounds like someone had a really good cup of coffee and typed a new thread about lugs. LOL

    Well of course it's the lugs, now drink your coffee...calm down a little ;)

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    Unfortunately, correlation does not imply causation.
     

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by fierte_poser View Post
    Unfortunately, correlation does not imply causation.
    what he said..... that and the lugs don't contrbute to the ride. The design and tubes do but not how they are stuck together. The lugs are for viewing pleasure.

    Dave
    D. Kirk
    Kirk Frameworks Co.
    www.kirkframeworks.com


  12. #12
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    "The lugs are for viewing pleasure."

    That has a nice ring to it.

    ...and now for your viewing pleasure:
    Attached Images Attached Images
    we are about to break the surly bonds of gravity and punch the face of God!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by rphetteplace View Post
    no magic? This isn't e-RICHIE?????

    I just threw up in my mouth a little.
    Dave Bradley...not the grumpy old Hogwarts caretaker "Mr. Filch" or the star of American Ninja 3 and 4.

    formerly "Mr.President"

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by acotts View Post
    "The lugs are for viewing pleasure."

    That has a nice ring to it.

    ...and now for your viewing pleasure:
    Thanks but no thanks. That's not a bike, it's a chandelier. Atmo, of course.
    GO!

  15. #15
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    Chandeliers are for viewing pleasure as well. plus its better than that picture of Carrot Top.
    we are about to break the surly bonds of gravity and punch the face of God!

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Too Tall View Post
    Well of course it's the lugs, now drink your coffee...calm down a little ;)
    perhaps you mean kool aid :cheers:
    Conscious coffee is good stuff but I'm looking for answers about what lugs bring to ride quality. By the responses, it sounds like not much.
     

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by coloclimber View Post
    perhaps you mean kool aid :cheers:
    Conscious coffee is good stuff but I'm looking for answers about what lugs bring to ride quality. By the responses, it sounds like not much.
    Hey thanks for the coffee link, can't get enough of the stuff.

    Doesn't bring anything to the ride? It's all in your head, sad but true I'm a legend in my own mind ;) Quit overthinking this, the thread is worth finishing. Many will not disagree that we are motivated by all sorts of interesting things. Food, coffee and (aheem) cool bikes wow who would fault you for that my man who???? Be it a dumpster find, lugged unobtanium or a signature lugged frame from one of our forums fine builders I reckon it puts some jingle in pedal stroke and makes you want to ride.

    Appreciation is not less a part of why I ride than essential definition of what makes a fine ride. Did that make any sense at all????? Need more coffee ;)

  18. #18
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    Default I really shouldn't get into this, but

    about fifteen years ago, when we had access to the Bicycling tarantula stiffness test thing, we made two frames with exactly the same dimensions, angles, tubing, dropouts, trim gauges, etc. One had cast lugs and BB, the other was entirely lugless. Interesting stuff:

    -The front triangles were easily measurably different; The lugged frame was torsionally stiffer.

    - The BB, isolated from a fork; The lugged frame was measurably LESS stiff.

    - The rear triangle lateral stiffness; The lugged frame was less stiff, but it was so close that it could hardly be measured.

    Here are my guesses: 1) Where it is a direct comparison, lugs can work like a butt, and make things stiffer (and heavier). 2) All other things being equal, BB stiffness may have as much to do with BB gauge as anything else. The lugless BB shell we used was a lot thicker than the cast shell we used.

    So, what do we learn by gazing at our navels? You can get a whole bunch of angels on the head of a pin. That's about it.
    Last edited by Tom Kellogg; 01-29-2009 at 04:39 PM. Reason: Typo
    Tom Kellogg
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  19. #19
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    Default that is called

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.President View Post
    I just threw up in my mouth a little.
    a siccup
     

  20. #20
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    Default It is about emotion

    Quote Originally Posted by coloclimber View Post
    perhaps you mean kool aid :cheers:
    Conscious coffee is good stuff but I'm looking for answers about what lugs bring to ride quality. By the responses, it sounds like not much.
    riding a bike is an emotional experience
    if not, then riding is just transport

    For some of us, lugs add to the emotion.


    Cheers from an emotional Dazza
    Attached Images Attached Images
     

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