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Thread: Dumb question: drill large holes trough Titanium foil.

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    Default Dumb question: drill large holes trough Titanium foil.

    Not for bicycle, actually a small windscreen for a camping stove.

    I've a 1.8mm titanium foil, looks like CP, can cut it with my Whurt HD scissors. I've to drill a series of 5mm holes along the bottom, and a few 12mm holes at mid-height.
    What would you use for the task? Drill bit or center-punch? I was thinking of the former, keeping the foil in between two pieces of perspex or similar hard transparent material, to prevent the holes being messed-up.
    I'm mostly concerned for the 12mm holes, can see the drill bit cutting too quick and making a very irregular shape. Also, on the matter of safety, that foil would be picked up by the drill bit and spin around like a mad thing.... not good! The Perspex would allow a safer clamp on the bench/vice.

    Any thoghts?

    Thanks
    Andrea "Gattonero" Cattolico, head mechanic @Condor Cycles London


    "Caron, non ti crucciare:
    vuolsi così colà dove si puote
    ciò che si vuole, e più non dimandare"

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    Default Re: Dumb question: drill large holes trough Titanium foil.

    how accurate do the holes have to be?

    a hydraulic knockout punch would make quick work of this.
    Matt Moore

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    Default Re: Dumb question: drill large holes trough Titanium foil.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellafab View Post
    how accurate do the holes have to be?

    a hydraulic knockout punch would make quick work of this.
    I'd like them to be ok for the eye, don't need to be accurate for mechaincal reason (they are venting holes)


    this is the mock-up made with disposable alluminium tray, easy to work with a leather punch
    Andrea "Gattonero" Cattolico, head mechanic @Condor Cycles London


    "Caron, non ti crucciare:
    vuolsi così colà dove si puote
    ciò che si vuole, e più non dimandare"

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    Default Re: Dumb question: drill large holes trough Titanium foil.

    punch away.

    just try to deburr the edges. hate to have them rip a hole in your pack.
    Matt Moore

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    Default Re: Dumb question: drill large holes trough Titanium foil.

    Thanks!
    I can make a punch out of old axles, those for cartridge bearings, Usually is case-hardened steel...
    Andrea "Gattonero" Cattolico, head mechanic @Condor Cycles London


    "Caron, non ti crucciare:
    vuolsi così colà dove si puote
    ciò che si vuole, e più non dimandare"

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    Default Re: Dumb question: drill large holes trough Titanium foil.

    just fwiw, those would have a pretty tight fitting to the bearing race if your using that for the receiving half. a punch like I mentioned has some pretty generous play when there is no metal between the punch discs.
    Matt Moore

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    Default Re: Dumb question: drill large holes trough Titanium foil.

    sandwich between 2 pcs of 1/2" or thicker plywood. Clamp tightly and drill away through the sandwich...
     

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    Default Re: Dumb question: drill large holes trough Titanium foil.

    I have a fair bit of experience making valve holes in sheet metal electronics enclosures. I would drill them on a drill press going up in steps to 10mm then enlarge the hole using a die grinder, step drill or file.

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    Default Re: Dumb question: drill large holes trough Titanium foil.

    I've tried with cobalt drill bits holding firmly the foil (with proper gloves) onto plywood on the bottom. As soon as the drill bit goes into the fluted section, it rips the foil, no matter how slow you go.
    a Unibit or small circular saw is probably better!
    Andrea "Gattonero" Cattolico, head mechanic @Condor Cycles London


    "Caron, non ti crucciare:
    vuolsi così colà dove si puote
    ciò che si vuole, e più non dimandare"

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    Default Re: Dumb question: drill large holes trough Titanium foil.

    Tried to drill the foil by just leaning on a piece of wood, starting -on purpose- from 3mm then using a 5mm cobalt bit. Even trying to be a slow as possible, as soon as the fluting of the bit would engage it does shear the foil and makes a mess.

    I am thinking to use cheap diamond hole saw bits, and working by erosion rather than cut.
    The punch seems too difficult, to align the punch with the receiving hole on the back, and I do get the foil to crease a bit.

    Something like this is cheap, not expecting it to last, but I won't spend lots of money for one quick project as this.
    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Diamond-Coat...42W8ZJB8XV2B0Y
    Andrea "Gattonero" Cattolico, head mechanic @Condor Cycles London


    "Caron, non ti crucciare:
    vuolsi così colà dove si puote
    ciò che si vuole, e più non dimandare"

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    Default Re: Dumb question: drill large holes trough Titanium foil.

    you could run the drill in reverse.

    typically frowned upon, but it will work fine for such thin material.

    Back the foil with a piece of soft wood so the drill bit will go through with ease.
    Matt Moore

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    Default Re: Dumb question: drill large holes trough Titanium foil.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gattonero View Post
    I've a 1.8mm titanium foil, looks like CP, can cut it with my Whurt HD scissors.
    Andrea, I'm assuming this stock is much thinner than 1.8 mm.

    In the past I've cut holes in thin stock by sharpening the end of a steel tube, chamfering the inside diameter, and putting that in a drill press or mill. Like the tools you show but with a sharp edge and no slot. Used it against a block of maple, sometimes with a top sheet of metal or Lexan. If you use the top sheet, pre-drill the hole or holes in that.

    Never did this with Ti, not sure if it would work harden and make this difficult.

    Have you tried a Whitney punch? The little (cheap) one goes up to 9/32" diameter.
    Tee Aitch

    Give a man a fish and feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime. Teach a man to cycle and he will realize fishing is stupid and boring. -- Desmond Tutu

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    Default Re: Dumb question: drill large holes trough Titanium foil.

    yeah its probably much thinner than 1.6mm if its tearing. 1.6mm is more than 1/16". that thick you should be able to plunge right into it.

    if its a foil its probably 0.016" which is 0.4mm.
    Matt Moore

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    Default Re: Dumb question: drill large holes trough Titanium foil.

    The foil is definitely above 1mm, although I cannot measure it with extreme precision. Being cut and deburred, the verniers say "1.8" but I won't take it for real as they're not the right tool for such job.

    Will try reversing the drill bit, I have to make the pilot holes anyway.

    I'm actually tempted to use the HD scissors and cut starting from the pilot hole!


    Andrea "Gattonero" Cattolico, head mechanic @Condor Cycles London


    "Caron, non ti crucciare:
    vuolsi così colà dove si puote
    ciò che si vuole, e più non dimandare"

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    I'm not sure if "foil" is a language issue, because 1.8 mm is pretty thick sheet metal, heavier than 16 gauge. In that case a vari-bit should do fine. Particularly if you back it up with wood. New and sharp, so it cuts a solid chip and doesn't work harden the Ti.

    Klein or Lenox.
    Tee Aitch

    Give a man a fish and feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime. Teach a man to cycle and he will realize fishing is stupid and boring. -- Desmond Tutu

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    Default Re: Dumb question: drill large holes trough Titanium foil.

    @1.8mm I'd start with a unibit, but if its much thinner I'd figure out how to punch 'em...if you can even do that with Ti, I've never worked with it.

    I'm working on a similar project btw. Been working on one of these...currently having trouble bending the tubes without them collapsing. I've got some scrap aluminum flashing from a roofing job to use as the wind screen/pot holder.

    **I've made a LOT of iterations of alcohol stoves over the years, they're fun little projects!

    laughter has no foreign accent.

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    Default Re: Dumb question: drill large holes trough Titanium foil.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gattonero View Post
    The foil is definitely above 1mm, although I cannot measure it with extreme precision. Being cut and deburred, the verniers say "1.8" but I won't take it for real as they're not the right tool for such job.

    Will try reversing the drill bit, I have to make the pilot holes anyway.

    I'm actually tempted to use the HD scissors and cut starting from the pilot hole!
    That is definitely not more than 1mm thick. 16 guage (1.6mm, 0.065") is more or less the thickness of an exhaust tip on a car.
    The 3" tube in this photo is 16 guage.

    20141125_190619.jpg

    The foil type product you posted would be best punched. If you had a piece of wood on top and bottom with a punch inserted in the middle, that would give the cleanest hole without major warping to the rest of the panel. a large leather punch would likely work too with a bit of distortion to the surrounding area.
    Matt Moore

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    Default Re: Dumb question: drill large holes trough Titanium foil.

    Got it measured in a better way. 1.1mm but Hellafab was right, not as thick as I thought in the beginning.
    Still, not easy to go trough.

    With the aid of the best 3D software


    and some CNC work (LOL)


    managed to get it done. Not great, but decent for the use: it's a bloody stove/windshield after all, has to serve a purpose as the main feature




    Andrea "Gattonero" Cattolico, head mechanic @Condor Cycles London


    "Caron, non ti crucciare:
    vuolsi così colà dove si puote
    ciò che si vuole, e più non dimandare"

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    Default Re: Dumb question: drill large holes trough Titanium foil.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Musgrave View Post
    ...
    I'm working on a similar project btw. Been working on one of these...currently having trouble bending the tubes without them collapsing. I've got some scrap aluminum flashing from a roofing job to use as the wind screen/pot holder.

    **I've made a LOT of iterations of alcohol stoves over the years, they're fun little projects!

    That is something I've never seen.
    Does is vaporize the Meths via the pipes?
    I've mainly build "opne-jet" types, with a few mods.

    Yes, alcohol stoves are lots of fun, especially when they really work
    Andrea "Gattonero" Cattolico, head mechanic @Condor Cycles London


    "Caron, non ti crucciare:
    vuolsi così colà dove si puote
    ciò che si vuole, e più non dimandare"

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    Save those Ti filings! Fun fire starter.
    Tee Aitch

    Give a man a fish and feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime. Teach a man to cycle and he will realize fishing is stupid and boring. -- Desmond Tutu

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