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Thread: The death of the derailleur?

  1. #21
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    Default Re: The death of the derailleur?

    All you have to say is that this is CeramicSpeed's idea and I can figure out the rest.
     

  2. #22
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    Default Re: The death of the derailleur?

    Quote Originally Posted by doomridesout View Post
    All you have to say is that this is CeramicSpeed's idea and I can figure out the rest.
    ha ha pretty much that.

    Other funny eurobike notable news are those 3mm thins flat pedals or gravel specific bags from shimano !
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    T h o m a s

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    Default Re: The death of the derailleur?

    "When we were at Eurobike last year, we knew that rideability and shiftability were soon to become a priority."

    I don't know, if it were me, "rideability and shiftability" would have been a priority long before a prototype was made, never mind a prototype with a decorative gear cover and a carbon drive shaft.

    Also, that flat pie plate of gears, how stiff does it have to be so that when you're in your easiest gear going up something stupid steep it doesn't flex in towards the spokes causing grinding or skipping?

    Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.
     

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    Default Re: The death of the derailleur?

    The industry is likely to push this idea just on the incompatibility issues alone....
    "Humilis humilibus...Inflectans arroganibus....."

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    Default Re: The death of the derailleur?

    At some point, I feel like the ideal consumer grade bike (read: non-racing, non-pro, non-purist, commuting and utility) will have a drivetrain consisting of small battery, with a sealed generator at the crank and a sealed regenerative motor at the rear wheel with a single reduction gear. Essentially, the person functions as the generator, the battery is a buffer that allows for a few minutes of hill climb or acceleration assist when needed, and otherwise the rear motor does power take-off from the generator at the crank. The rear motor also functions as a regen unit under braking. That would be a true human/electric hybrid bike and probably more efficient than the shaft drive as a system.
    Drop bars not bombs.

  6. #26
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    Default Re: The death of the derailleur?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNerdyCyclist View Post
    At some point, I feel like the ideal consumer grade bike (read: non-racing, non-pro, non-purist, commuting and utility) will have a drivetrain consisting of small battery, with a sealed generator at the crank and a sealed regenerative motor at the rear wheel with a single reduction gear. Essentially, the person functions as the generator, the battery is a buffer that allows for a few minutes of hill climb or acceleration assist when needed, and otherwise the rear motor does power take-off from the generator at the crank. The rear motor also functions as a regen unit under braking. That would be a true human/electric hybrid bike and probably more efficient than the shaft drive as a system.
    One would think there would be great potential for full-suspension mountain bikes with a system like this - imagine what you could do if you could totally remove the chain and its forces from the design parameters. More travel, no chain-line issues, no chain/tire clearance problems, no bobbing/activation or whatever you might call it. I wonder what the losses are.
     

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    Default Re: The death of the derailleur?

    Same company makes $1000 and $1700 derailleur pulleys.

    Say that slow. $1000... derailleur... pulleys. What a colossal waste.

    CeramicSpeed 3D Printed Hollow Titanium Pulley Wheels compatible with Shimano , Pulley Wheels
     

  8. #28
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    Default Re: The death of the derailleur?

    The death of cycling (hype killed the bicycle)

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    Default Re: The death of the derailleur?

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew View Post
    Same company makes $1000 and $1700 derailleur pulleys.

    Say that slow. $1000... derailleur... pulleys. What a colossal waste.

    CeramicSpeed 3D Printed Hollow Titanium Pulley Wheels compatible with Shimano , Pulley Wheels
    That's how a dura-ace di2 equipped new bike feel to 99% of the world population who is used to purchase sub 400$ general store bikes
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  10. #30
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    Default Re: The death of the derailleur?



    How to Make Gravy: Paul Kelly (no relation)

  11. #31
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    Default Re: The death of the derailleur?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sinclair View Post

    Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.
    Just market it, brand it, make noise about it. Attract venture capital. There's no need to actually produce a functional and profitable product. Welcome to the new economy. For reference, see Uber.
     

  12. #32
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    Default Re: The death of the derailleur?

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew View Post
    Say that slow. $1000... derailleur... pulleys.
    Gotta give them credit for having some cojones. If this project succeeds, it will destroy their current market. :-)

    I think the fact that they are trying something radical is worth something, even if it's mostly just marketing hype. The derailleur market seems so locked up by patents, I don't see much opportunity for actual innovation within the current structure. Didn't Rotor go with hydraulics because that was the only way they could steer clear of existing patents?
     

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    Default Re: The death of the derailleur?

    Quote Originally Posted by caleb View Post
    For reference, see WeWork.
    Improved it for ya.
    Chikashi Miyamoto

  14. #34
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    Default Re: The death of the derailleur?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNerdyCyclist View Post
    At some point, I feel like the ideal consumer grade bike (read: non-racing, non-pro, non-purist, commuting and utility) will have a drivetrain consisting of small battery, with a sealed generator at the crank and a sealed regenerative motor at the rear wheel with a single reduction gear. Essentially, the person functions as the generator, the battery is a buffer that allows for a few minutes of hill climb or acceleration assist when needed, and otherwise the rear motor does power take-off from the generator at the crank. The rear motor also functions as a regen unit under braking. That would be a true human/electric hybrid bike and probably more efficient than the shaft drive as a system.
    This could actually work. Best case efficiency for DC motors and generators is about 98% so net loss would be about 5%. Given that the system would allow the generator to run at the cadence that allows the rider to optimise their efficiency, the total system loss would be line ball with a current setup.

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    Default Re: The death of the derailleur?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Kelly View Post
    This could actually work. Best case efficiency for DC motors and generators is about 98% so net loss would be about 5%. Given that the system would allow the generator to run at the cadence that allows the rider to optimise their efficiency, the total system loss would be line ball with a current setup.
    That's my thoughts too. I don't think improving on the efficiency of a chain is as useful as improving the packaging limitations of a mechanical drive.
    Drop bars not bombs.

  16. #36
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    Default Re: The death of the derailleur?

    I guess that's kind of the question here - a lot of us wouldn't ride a road or mtb for sport that wasn't a purely mechanical bike, but does having a battery that is solely charged by the crank generator (no plug in option) count as a pure drive system?
    Drop bars not bombs.

  17. #37
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    Default Re: The death of the derailleur?

    See also - Seiko Spring Drive watches. An amazing piece of technology and engineering, a closed system in the same way as an automatic mechanical watch is, but they absolutely split opinion in the high-end watch sector between those who are open to them, and those who are not.
     

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