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Thread: Compliance in rear triangle?

  1. #21
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    Default Re: Compliance in rear triangle?

    Now that we've tackled fat tyres, aero frames and disc brakes and made them mainstream for the road, next cab off the rank is suspension. Get the wallet ready, the new trend is here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott G. View Post
    New Can'odale Topstone, puts the pivot bearing at seat tube / seat stay.
    So it is equivalent to the Moots YBB ?

    Cannondale Topstone Carbon First Look - 3mm Kingpin suspension, wide tyres and all the mounts + video | road.cc
    Attachment 112353
    Bill Fernance
    Bicycle Shop Owner
    Part Time Framebuilder
    Bicycle Tragic

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    Default Re: Compliance in rear triangle?

    I believe Sheryl Crow - "if it makes you happy, it can't be that bad." Those Kirk curves make me happy and I don't even own one.

    I can say my 2019 Roubaix with Future Shock and CGR seatpost and 27mm wide rims running 28mm Conti 4K2 tires with 55psi front, 65psi rear is the real deal for "compliance." godsend for sh*t roads in sonoma county.
     

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    Default Re: Compliance in rear triangle?

    Quote Originally Posted by progetto View Post
    Now that we've tackled fat tyres, aero frames and disc brakes and made them mainstream for the road, next cab off the rank is suspension. Get the wallet ready, the new trend is here.
    ...I picked up a Lauf True Grit recently as an experiment. It is fantastic.
    The leaf spring fork has 30mm of travel, but in reality it travels very little, just enough to absorb high frequency bumps and rocks on rough dirt roads. The Lauf is not a substitute for a hardtail mtb with a stanchion fork that will take large hits - none of these gravel suspension designs are. It's instead about absorbing chatter over the long haul. The effect is a noticeably less fatiguing ride than with fat tires alone, making long rough gravel rides better.

    Other designs that attempt some minimal suspension in the rear are intriguing also.
    Steve Park

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    Default Re: Compliance in rear triangle?

    Anybody try this?

    eeSilk - Cane Creek Cycling Components

    Looks like just enough to make the rigid rear compliance discussion irrelevant, no?
     

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    Default Re: Compliance in rear triangle?

    Quote Originally Posted by sparky33 View Post
    ...I picked up a Lauf True Grit recently as an experiment. It is fantastic.
    The leaf spring fork has 30mm of travel, but in reality it travels very little, just enough to absorb high frequency bumps and rocks on rough dirt roads. The Lauf is not a substitute for a hardtail mtb with a stanchion fork that will take large hits - none of these gravel suspension designs are. It's instead about absorbing chatter over the long haul. The effect is a noticeably less fatiguing ride than with fat tires alone, making long rough gravel rides better.

    Other designs that attempt some minimal suspension in the rear are intriguing also.
    This is cool. I want one......in orange, no, red, yes, green, is there yellow? Man, I want one.

    I also want to ride in Iceland and be cold, and wet, and dirty at the same time so that when I peel my clothes off at the end of the day I will be warm again.
     

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    Default Re: Compliance in rear triangle?

    Quote Originally Posted by suhacycles View Post
    Anybody try this?

    eeSilk - Cane Creek Cycling Components

    Looks like just enough to make the rigid rear compliance discussion irrelevant, no?
    Haven't tried it, but for a bike that won't allow a long flexible (static) seatpost I think the eeSilk concept is on the right track in having a suspension element that dampens instead of traveling to give a long haul effect of comfort. Typical suspension seatposts mistakenly fixate on lots of travel and end up awkward, heavy, and ugly.

    The accompanying video would be more convincing if it included a slo-mo video of the elastomer at work.

    The only offered setback of 8mm would upset my saddle-rail-centering OCD. Do I make my head or my back happy?
    Steve Park

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    Default Re: Compliance in rear triangle?

    Quote Originally Posted by suhacycles View Post
    Anybody try this?

    eeSilk - Cane Creek Cycling Components

    Looks like just enough to make the rigid rear compliance discussion irrelevant, no?
    While the eeSilk looks *fairly* non-intrusive as cush seatposts go, it send the travel in all the wrong directions. I've been using the Kinekt post for over a year, and love it. The direction of travel has the pivot centered in line with the front hub, exactly where it should be, to damp out rear wheel vibration and absorb the chatter, while not affecting reach.
    DT

    http://www.mjolnircycles.com/

    Some are born to move the world to live their fantasies...

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    Default Re: Compliance in rear triangle?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Tollefson View Post
    While the eeSilk looks *fairly* non-intrusive as cush seatposts go, it send the travel in all the wrong directions. I've been using the Kinekt post for over a year, and love it. The direction of travel has the pivot centered in line with the front hub, exactly where it should be, to damp out rear wheel vibration and absorb the chatter, while not affecting reach.
    Could you explain this again? I am not understanding pivoting in line with the front hub, but I feel like this may be an important point. And in contrast, how does the eeSilk pivot differently...is also pivoting aft of the post?
    Steve Park

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    Default Re: Compliance in rear triangle?

    Quote Originally Posted by sparky33 View Post
    Could you explain this again? I am not understanding pivoting in line with the front hub, but I feel like this may be an important point. And in contrast, how does the eeSilk pivot differently...is also pivoting aft of the post?
    I wrote up a blog post last year about it here.

    Essentially, though, any linkage mechanism can only move perpendicular to the linkages involved. In the case of the eeSilk, that goes directly backwards first, which means your reach will increase (significantly) before you actually absorb any upward motion of the rear wheel. Any movement of the rear wheel up or down will have a pivot point at the front hub -- the bike acts as a rigid body (in physics/engineering speak -- yes, I know it's not truly rigid). When you extend the line of the linkages on the Kinekt, they pass very close to the front hub. This makes it much more sensitive to the actual movements of the rear wheel, and the active nature of the linkage makes it a very supple system.
    DT

    http://www.mjolnircycles.com/

    Some are born to move the world to live their fantasies...

    "the fun outweighs the suck, and the suck hasn't killed me yet." -- chasea

    "Sometimes, as good as it feels to speak out, silence is the only way to rise above the morass. The high road is generally a quiet route." -- echelon_john

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    Default Re: Compliance in rear triangle?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Tollefson View Post
    Essentially, though, any linkage mechanism can only move perpendicular to the linkages involved. In the case of the eeSilk, that goes directly backwards first, which means your reach will increase (significantly) before you actually absorb any upward motion of the rear wheel.
    I have not ridden the eeSilk but I've spent some time with similar shock posts and a Softride beam. The eeSilk's linkages are very short so the saddle will travel in a fairly small arc. Because the linkages are nearly vertical at rest, the initial travel will be rearward, which seems a little awkward. It also means that a downward force (your arse on the saddle) will encounter an anti-progressive resistance. The effective spring rate for the first few mm of travel will be higher than the next few mm, the opposite of what seems warranted.

    I'm with David on this one, a better design will have the saddle follow a path closer to an arc around the front axle.

    TH

    PS Hello Lauf! Half of one of their forks would make a really cool seatpost, no?
    Last edited by thollandpe; 4 Weeks Ago at 12:05 PM.
     

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