User Tag List

Likes Likes:  0
Results 1 to 12 of 12

Thread: Buzzword compliant features for a CX frame

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    San Francisco
    Posts
    18
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Buzzword compliant features for a CX frame

    This is my first post but I've been lurking here for a while and really enjoy the community and collective wisdom gathered here. I thought'd I'd test out the collective feelings on all of the new standards floating around bike frames and CX frames in particular. I come from a tech background where newer is almost always better so my tendency is to embrace the new hotness, but I get the feeling that many of these things aren't really any better than the old stuff.

    So, given all the new 'standards' in bottom brackets, headsets, forks, and brakes I've been wondering what of these are actually better (by some measure) than what came before and what are just marketing wankery. Which of these would you put on a CX frame if you wanted all of the new stuff that worked and what would you leave out?

    My list:
    Hydraulic Disc Brakes (I really like my disc brake CX frame)
    PF30 or English BB
    - An English BB would allow for a CK bottom bracket for easy grease cleaning.
    - PF30 for a larger BB area for metal frames for easier fabrication.
    1.5 - 1.125 tapered fork compatible (i.e. the Enve or 3T one).

    Material:
    - Al, Ti or Steel. I would think Al for a race bike and Ti or Steel for a Race+Dirtroad bike.

    What do people think? What of these standards are genuinely better than what came before and what are just marketing?
     

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    no shore, mass
    Posts
    14,041
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Buzzword compliant features for a CX frame

    my take.
    i dont think there is any way to easily set up hydraulic discs with road levers. yet. this will be a game changer when shimano makes something hydraulic that works with sti.
    the bb options are annoying at best to me... i think you can make any of them work with assorted adapters, etc. dont lose sleep over this.
    the large tapered fork is now the standard so that the carbon forks can pass euro standard testing. i thk that will be where it stays until its not there anymore.
    carbon is best for a race bike now imo. al is cheaper and still pretty light.
     

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    W Mass
    Posts
    11,198
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Buzzword compliant features for a CX frame

    This year I replaced my Ti Ďcross bike with aluminum, I was lucky enough to find a used Rock Lobster in my size. Itís an amazing bike. Regardless of the buzz words I think the two most important traits are FIT and HANDLING and the new bike does both better.

    Material: the new bike uses the same fork and components, even wheels, so I got to really see and feel the difference. I was surprised at the different feel, even through the handlebars (I didnít even change the tape). But does this make a difference? Will I be more rattled at the end of next yearís Detoo Artoo? I donít think so but I do like the way the new rig scoots when you really put the boot to it.

    BB30: The old rig had a 68-mm English-threaded BB and I think that still gives you the most options. BB30 on the new rig and itís invisible. The weight difference falls in the obsessive/compulsive realm so if youíre prone to that, fine, else donít worry about it like Steve says. If I had a choice Iíd stay English.

    Tapered fork: neither. However, I fail to see that if a 29er with a 5-inch travel fork and 180-mm or 203mm discs has adequate front end rigidity, why a tapered steerer is needed on a Ďcross bike. Or even a gol-dang tandem! Maybe itís easier to make in carbon? I donít think the weight difference translates to a performance difference. Given the choice Iíd stick with straight 1-1/8Ē to keep my headset options open.

    Brakes: I recently upgraded to mini-Vís (on the old bike) and they are amazing. One-finger lockup when I want it. No fork shudder. Clean cable routing. Less clearance, cuz there ainít no free. I understand the allure of discs and love them on my MTB (which I ride in snow and through streams in freezing weather, unlike the CX bike) so why not the Avid BB7? Great brake, cheap and simple. But look hard at the mini-V's first.

    Fit and handling: sail past the buzzwords and find a builder that will give it a soul.

    Oh, and the buzzwords do create opportunities, like this Made-in-USA beauty on the blocks for a song (I have seen and ridden alongside this bike, itís a creampuff): 54cm Cannondale Cyclocross Bike: Race-ready | eBay
     

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    1,863
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Buzzword compliant features for a CX frame

    - Don't have experience with discs
    - PF30 if you decide on aluminum or Ti, 68mm English is fine for steel. Yes, you have the easy re-greasing option of a CK English BB (I used to use a Grease Guard BB and it was very convenient indeed). However, PF30 BB's are cheap (SRAM is $35) and are pretty easy to replace
    - I use 1 & 1/8th on my steel gravel/dirt road bike, and a 44mm head tube with a tapered ENVE fork on my aluminum road racing bike. The former works just fine. The latter has a very connected, stiff feeling and cornering feels very secure

    - Don't have any long-term experience with Ti. For long distance road & gravel, nothing is nicer than my stainless steel bike from Hampco. For racing CX, I have an old Ridley aluminum that's going into its 8th winter. For road racing, I have a Primus Mootry with a PF30 and 44mm HT & tapered fork, and that thing is an explosive hill rocket. The cross bike's position and stiffness is good for up to an hour's worth of cross riding and the PM is fine up to 3 hours of road riding. Rides longer than that, I prefer my Hampsten

    Having said all that about steel and aluminum, those specific bikes ride the way they do because of their fit and intent. It's not just the material alone. Obviously, it's possible to reverse the materials and have fine riding bikes (e.g. Steve's aluminum Strada Bianca, or making an extremely stiff, short wheelbase road race bike out of MAX steel). But given the choice, I went with the material that could complement and enhance the intent of the ride. Therefore, comfy stainless for gravel/road from Steve, and oversized aluminum with the massive PF30 and 44mm HT from Joe @ PM.

    High quality carbon is where it's at for racing, as SteveP says. I have no intention of buying factory carbon, but when I test ride them at the LBS, they're pretty amazing rides. I have quirky proportions though, so it's difficult to find a stock carbon frame that really fits me and I can't afford custom carbon(mortgage comes first). Like thollandpe says, fit and handling trumps other considerations for me.
     

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    San Francisco
    Posts
    18
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Buzzword compliant features for a CX frame

    Thanks for the thoughts so far!

    I should have been clearer, Fit and Handling are obviously priority number one. My current bike is custom MagnumCX from Tonic Fabrications and fits really well. It's way overbuilt and I can bomb through most of the trails in Marin with no worries. The downside of all of this strength though is that it's pretty heavy. The fork alone is ~1kg :)

    It's got BB7s on it now and I really love the control and stopping power they give as well as the extra mud clearance around the frame. They are kind of a pain to set up though, they don't auto center like a dual piston hydraulic would and they're not a sealed system. None of these are deal breakers but if I were to do it again I'd have it setup for hydraulic from the start.

    The frame has a PF86 bottom bracket which I think was a mistake. It doesn't have the ease of use of an english bb, and doesn't have the benefits of PF30.

    The headset is the other thing I'd probably change. It's uses a standard 1 1/8 campy compatible headset which seems to somehow suck up more water and mud than should be possible. I was thinking that something more standard would allow a wider range of choices that might be better sealed and not require cleaning after every race.
     

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    283
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Buzzword compliant features for a CX frame

    i dont get the hydro disc fetish people seem to have

    i mean

    how many races have you lost because you couldn't stop fast enough?
     

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    1,155
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Buzzword compliant features for a CX frame

    Quote Originally Posted by DougS View Post
    i dont get the hydro disc fetish people seem to have

    i mean

    how many races have you lost because you couldn't stop fast enough?
    The faster you can stop. The faster you can go.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    75
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Buzzword compliant features for a CX frame

    PF30 note:

    My ti 'cross bikes are PF30. I use CK bottom brackets with SRAM adapters. I do the same on my ti PF30 mountain bike frame. My ti road frame is PF30 and is set up with the dedicated PF30 crankset. No creaks or problems with either set up. I like PF30, because it allows options.
     

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Norcal
    Posts
    110
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Buzzword compliant features for a CX frame

    PF30 also allows for an eccentric if you ever want to go singlespeed.
     

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Portland OR
    Posts
    813
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Buzzword compliant features for a CX frame

    Are you going with a flat bar? If not, the hydraulic disc conversation is strictly a rhetorical one at this point...
     

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    San Francisco
    Posts
    18
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Buzzword compliant features for a CX frame

    I've noticed that Joachim Parbo has been running the TRP parabox unit in a few races this year. You can see a few shots of his bike on this post: How to Race Cyclocross (Joachim Parbo CX Clinic) | bikealps

    So no straight up STI to disc but these converters are a first step, and I have no doubt that Shimano and SRAM will have something out in the next year or two. It's an easy marketing pitch for them, why wouldn't they?
     

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Western MA
    Posts
    2,813
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Buzzword compliant features for a CX frame

    I am curious to hear what those with experience think of off the shelf carbon cross bikes like Redline and Scott, and their ilk. Also, can one avoid brake shudder with a 1.125 carbon fork- I ask because I am thinking of trying this on a disc Ti cross bike I have that currently runs a steel fork.
     

Similar Threads

  1. Loaded Touring Bike Features.
    By Dorman in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 72
    Last Post: 08-17-2011, 03:05 AM
  2. Carbon Fiber & Kevlar: nautically, not so compliant....
    By 54ny77 in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 01-07-2010, 01:56 PM
  3. BRAIN Adds Home Page Features
    By admin in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 09-15-2009, 03:01 AM
  4. Neat features
    By AntLockyer in forum VSalon Cycling Gallery
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 03-04-2009, 06:10 PM
  5. Board Features
    By Too Tall in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 06-01-2008, 06:58 AM

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •