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Thread: Bound to happen

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    Default Bound to happen

    The show must go on. It isnt 1April is it?

    UCI statement on Christopher Froome
     

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    Default Re: Bound to happen

    I wouldn't expect otherwise, after all, cycling is routed in tradition and since the '90s, it is customary for grand tours to end in a Swiss courtroom.
     

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    Default Re: Bound to happen

    Well, they tried to railroad Indurain on salbutamol and we all know he was totally clean.
     

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    Default Re: Bound to happen

    Am I missing something? Why is this test result being made public almost 3 months later? Shouldn't he have been forced out of the Vuelta?
     

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    Default Re: Bound to happen

    Quote Originally Posted by snotrockets View Post
    I wouldn't expect otherwise, after all, cycling is routed in tradition and since the '90s, it is customary for grand tours to end in a Swiss courtroom.
    We need a new jersey, best lawyer.
     

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    Default Re: Bound to happen

    My take is if racing makes your asthma go worse you should stop racing. When you get sick and your professionnal activity is the cause or becomes difficult to continue by your condition your doctor gives you a medical certificate to stop that activity. Why should it be different in sports ?
    --
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    Default Re: Bound to happen

    Salbutamol is not a banned substance. You don't even need a TUE to take it. I think you just have to inform the UCI that you are taking it and stay beneath the therapeutic levels on your blood tests. I've talked to my doctor about this, and if I understand the way salbutamol works, it doesn't increase your capacity for breathing unless you are experiencing asthmatic symptoms. So a person can't take salbutamol and zoom up Alp d'Huez ahead of everyone else, but an asthmatic could take salbutamol and actually keep up with other riders who are unaffected. As such, it provides no performance advantage, except that it removes the adverse affects of an affliction. It isn't like an antihistamine that might also contain epinephrine that would give a degree of performance enhancement to anyone who took it. But I guess it also isn't like insulin, something that the body requires to stay alive. A little bit of a gray area then? Anyway, it seems like he went over the therapeutic levels by a considerable amount, and he says a doctor prescribed the higher dosage of salbutamol, so the offense here appears that Froome should have gotten a TUE for the increased dosage but didn't. Which is a bit stupid.
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    Default Re: Bound to happen

    As an asthma sufferer i can relate and feel sympathetic. Bronchial dilators are powerful stuff and in the heat of the moment the "did I already take my puffs" question can get blurred.

    But knowing Sky's reputation for playing on the edge, that sympathy dims pretty quickly...
    Guy Washburn

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    Default Re: Bound to happen

    In other news... I'm doubling my dose of my daily drug this morning. Going from two shots of espresso to four just so I can make it through this book I'm reading. I hope that doesn't disadvantage the people who are reading the same book, taking the same test, and working under the same end of semester deadlines.
    Andy

    RAI Reporter: "Did you have it in mind to go for the win today?"
    Eddy Merckx: "Why do you ask me that? Why do you think I'm here? To watch the others win?"

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    Default Re: Bound to happen

    Interesting detail...

    Nibali, returning from a training ride in Croatia during a team camp, said he found it difficult to understand why Froome was taking so much Salbutamol as to go over the allowed limit on the day of the alleged infraction during stage 18 of the Vuelta in northern Spain.

    “On that day in Spain, it was raining and it seems difficult to believe you are suffering from asthma,” Nibali continued. “I have the same problem, but when it rains, the pollen does not even bother you, and you do not need to resort to the Ventolin [Salbutamol] spray.”


    Read more at Nibali on Froome: ‘It’s a big blow to cycling’ | VeloNews.com
    Guy Washburn

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    Default Re: Bound to happen

    Quote Originally Posted by j44ke View Post
    Salbutamol is not a banned substance. You don't even need a TUE to take it. I think you just have to inform the UCI that you are taking it and stay beneath the therapeutic levels on your blood tests. I've talked to my doctor about this, and if I understand the way salbutamol works, it doesn't increase your capacity for breathing unless you are experiencing asthmatic symptoms. So a person can't take salbutamol and zoom up Alp d'Huez ahead of everyone else, but an asthmatic could take salbutamol and actually keep up with other riders who are unaffected. As such, it provides no performance advantage, except that it removes the adverse affects of an affliction. It isn't like an antihistamine that might also contain epinephrine that would give a degree of performance enhancement to anyone who took it. But I guess it also isn't like insulin, something that the body requires to stay alive. A little bit of a gray area then? Anyway, it seems like he went over the therapeutic levels by a considerable amount, and he says a doctor prescribed the higher dosage of salbutamol, so the offense here appears that Froome should have gotten a TUE for the increased dosage but didn't. Which is a bit stupid.
    I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that it also acted as a masking agent for other drugs. True or myth ?
    Last edited by sk_tle; 12-13-2017 at 10:22 AM.
    --
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    Default Re: Bound to happen

    Quote Originally Posted by sk_tle View Post
    I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that it also acted as a masking agent for other drugs. True or myth ?
    ding ding ding

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    Default Re: Bound to happen

    Quote Originally Posted by j44ke View Post
    so the offense here appears that Froome should have gotten a TUE for the increased dosage but didn't. Which is a bit stupid.
    This is kind of the key in my mind. How does the most valuable, successful, famous cyclist in current times miss this detail?
    Last edited by Justin@BlackOakVelo; 12-13-2017 at 10:30 AM.
    Instagram- BlackOakVelo

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    Default Re: Bound to happen

    I pulled this snippet from a BBC article regarding the Froome incident...

    Research suggests that around 35-40% of British Olympic cyclists use an inhaler, compared with 21% of the Olympic team as a whole and 9% of the general population.
    rw saunders
    everything is connected

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    Default Re: Bound to happen

    My opinion on this is changing. I think they should legalize most things. Then it’s controlled and done properly with medical supervision. It seems to happen anyway so just put it in the open.
    La Cheeserie!

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    Default Re: Bound to happen

    Quote Originally Posted by Saab2000 View Post
    My opinion on this is changing. I think they should legalize most things. Then it’s controlled and done properly with medical supervision. It seems to happen anyway so just put it in the open.
    People would still cheat.
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    Default Re: Bound to happen

    Quote Originally Posted by j44ke View Post
    I've talked to my doctor about this, and if I understand the way salbutamol works, it doesn't increase your capacity for breathing unless you are experiencing asthmatic symptoms. So a person can't take salbutamol and zoom up Alp d'Huez ahead of everyone else, but an asthmatic could take salbutamol and actually keep up with other riders who are unaffected. As such, it provides no performance advantage, except that it removes the adverse affects of an affliction.
    I am actually an asthma specialist and routinely give albuterol (the US equivalent of salbutamol) to people to help diagnose asthma. We do a breathing test (spirometry) before and after inhaling the drug. Albuterol DOES increase lung function (FEV1) up to 5-8% in healthy people, and wears off in about 4 hours. In people with uncontrolled asthma, the increase in lung function can be 10% or more, and we consider +12% to be diagnostic of asthma. So it is no surprise to me that cyclists would like to have a diagnosis of exercise-induced asthma and be allowed to use these types of medications, whether they have asthma or not. Can't speak to the masking effects but that would be the icing on the cake.
     

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    Default Re: Bound to happen

    Quote Originally Posted by arik View Post
    I am actually an asthma specialist and routinely give albuterol (the US equivalent of salbutamol) to people to help diagnose asthma. We do a breathing test (spirometry) before and after inhaling the drug. Albuterol DOES increase lung function (FEV1) up to 5-8% in healthy people, and wears off in about 4 hours. In people with uncontrolled asthma, the increase in lung function can be 10% or more, and we consider +12% to be diagnostic of asthma. So it is no surprise to me that cyclists would like to have a diagnosis of exercise-induced asthma and be allowed to use these types of medications, whether they have asthma or not. Can't speak to the masking effects but that would be the icing on the cake.
    Interesting. Thanks.
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    Default Re: Bound to happen

    Quote Originally Posted by SignatureJustin View Post
    This is kind of the key in my mind. How does the most valuable, successful, famous cyclist in current times miss this detail?
    Especially on a team that prides itself in a meticulous approach to marginal gains and leaving nothing up to chance? I know.
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    Default Re: Bound to happen

    Quote Originally Posted by arik View Post
    I am actually an asthma specialist and routinely give albuterol (the US equivalent of salbutamol) to people to help diagnose asthma. We do a breathing test (spirometry) before and after inhaling the drug. Albuterol DOES increase lung function (FEV1) up to 5-8% in healthy people, and wears off in about 4 hours. In people with uncontrolled asthma, the increase in lung function can be 10% or more, and we consider +12% to be diagnostic of asthma. So it is no surprise to me that cyclists would like to have a diagnosis of exercise-induced asthma and be allowed to use these types of medications, whether they have asthma or not. Can't speak to the masking effects but that would be the icing on the cake.
    I consider you a more reliable source than this guy, but:

    "Dickinson is head of the respiratory clinic at the University of Kent, and carries out breathing assessments at Medway Park Sports Centre.

    He has tested Olympians and elite athletes from almost every sport, including GB cyclists and members of Team Sky.

    ...

    There is a widely held suspicion that athletes get themselves diagnosed as asthmatic in order to access medications that will boost their performance, i.e. as a shady marginal gain.

    Dickinson dismisses this theory as illogical and unfounded.

    “We know that therapeutic doses of inhalers don’t touch performance, so if you’re a non-asthmatic taking a couple of puffs of salbutamol, it’s not going to do anything for you. We have plenty of research proving that.”
    The truth about cycling and asthma - Cycling Weekly

    As someone who had asthma as a kid, and occasionally uses an inhaler now when cat allergies get the best of me while visiting the inlaws, I know that when you *need* it, it makes a BIG difference in how easy it is to breathe. But I've never taken a puff when I didn't need it, much less while riding.
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