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Thread: Bora WTO wheels

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    Default Bora WTO wheels

    I just received a pair of them with 19mm width. I also got new set of Veloflex Master SPS tires in 25 width. I mounted them up last night and they were tight but they went on with a tire lever. Today I am about to throw the box and away and I notice it says for use on rims with a width of 13 to 17 mm. Their website says the same thing. The Campy user manual and website says that I can use 23, 25 or 28s on the rim.

    Am I looking for trouble with the Veloflex tires or am I going to fine?
     

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    Default Re: Bora WTO wheels

    I am about to mount the same tire in 28mm width onto some new ZIPP 303 firecrest (Internal width 24mm)

    I think you'll be fine but I will let you know if I have any problems though.

    I think Veloflex are a little behind the times in terms of rim widths - that's all.
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    Default Re: Bora WTO wheels

    It's no problem to use a 25mm tire on a 19mm internal-width rim. That is the perfect match for that rim width.

    The only problem riders should note is the danger of using certain carbon rims that aren't made to ETRTO standards. Enve rims, for example, are dangerous with several brands of tires. Enve blames the tire manufacturers; the tire manufacturers point out that Enve doesn't meet ETRTO standards and their rims have manufacturing and design defects. Tire makers react to Enve warning | Bicycle Retailer and Industry News
     

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    Default Re: Bora WTO wheels

    don't use tire levers to put a tire on- ever.

    if you're not going to listen then at least use the ones that came with the Boras. they're really good and unlikely to damage the rim. regarding the width thing-it has to do with your tire mfg sticking by the ERTO rules and Campy sticking by what they've decided to do. those tires will be fine on those wheels. But please- don't use tire levers to get a tire on. Try a different technique, find a gorilla, start at the valve, yell, scream, swear, etc. But don't put road bike tires on with tire levers.
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    Default Re: Bora WTO wheels

    I'd second the esteemed Jerk's comments about never using a tire lever to install, especially on a carbon rim.

    The simplest trick my LBS taught me is to push the bead of the installed side and the one you are working on to the middle of the rim. This will create some slack in the bead and has helped me go from swearing to only a moderate amount of thumb pressure to roll that last little bit of bead over the edge. Be patient as it may take more than one round of pushing the beads into the middle and then pulling the slack, but it seems to consistently work without resorting to tools you shouldn't be using there anyway. Good luck.
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    Default Re: Bora WTO wheels

    Quote Originally Posted by Wisco View Post
    I'd second the esteemed Jerk's comments about never using a tire lever to install, especially on a carbon rim.

    The simplest trick my LBS taught me is to push the bead of the installed side and the one you are working on to the middle of the rim. This will create some slack in the bead and has helped me go from swearing to only a moderate amount of thumb pressure to roll that last little bit of bead over the edge. Be patient as it may take more than one round of pushing the beads into the middle and then pulling the slack, but it seems to consistently work without resorting to tools you shouldn't be using there anyway. Good luck.
    I know this is the advice that is most given by people in the know. But for me, it has not worked. The bead of the installed tire is in the center channel. But towards the end of putting the other bead in the center channel, I just cannot do it. The bead is just so tight that no matter the amount of soap I use, it does not just slip into the tire. And I end up using a lever. I must be doing something wrong. But I do not know what since the instructions are so simple.
     

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    Default Re: Bora WTO wheels

    Quote Originally Posted by nmrt View Post
    I know this is the advice that is most given by people in the know. But for me, it has not worked. The bead of the installed tire is in the center channel. But towards the end of putting the other bead in the center channel, I just cannot do it. The bead is just so tight that no matter the amount of soap I use, it does not just slip into the tire. And I end up using a lever. I must be doing something wrong. But I do not know what since the instructions are so simple.
    You're not the only one . . .

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    Default Re: Bora WTO wheels

    Put the tire in the sun or in the dryer. Then put as much in the channel as you can. Then put the part not installed on a folded up towel and use your weight to stretch stretch stretch the tire down toward that last part. Now try and roll the last part on.

    Then when you have no more skin on your thumbs or palms use a lever
     

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    Default Re: Bora WTO wheels

    Quote Originally Posted by jerk View Post
    don't use tire levers to put a tire on- ever.

    if you're not going to listen then at least use the ones that came with the Boras. they're really good and unlikely to damage the rim. regarding the width thing-it has to do with your tire mfg sticking by the ERTO rules and Campy sticking by what they've decided to do. those tires will be fine on those wheels. But please- don't use tire levers to get a tire on. Try a different technique, find a gorilla, start at the valve, yell, scream, swear, etc. But don't put road bike tires on with tire levers.
    I did use the campy supplied tire lever to get the tires over the last bit of rim. And I did make sure the inner edge of the tire was moved into the center channel to give me more play in the tire as I mounted it.

    A question for Jerk: Is there a clincher tire that is easier to mount on the WTO rims? I know from the other string on tires you said the Campy engineers do all their testing with Vittoria. Am I going to have a better time with them vs Veloflex? And if I do go to the tubeless is there a preferred tire for ease of installation for that too?
     

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    Default Re: Bora WTO wheels

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom View Post
    Put the tire in the sun or in the dryer. Then put as much in the channel as you can. Then put the part not installed on a folded up towel and use your weight to stretch stretch stretch the tire down toward that last part. Now try and roll the last part on.

    Then when you have no more skin on your thumbs or palms use a lever
    Start with the valve side in the center channel at 12:00 and as described above push down both sides working your way to the ground at 6:00. uses a soapy mix at the very end if you must.
     

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    Default Re: Bora WTO wheels

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbolado View Post
    I did use the campy supplied tire lever to get the tires over the last bit of rim. And I did make sure the inner edge of the tire was moved into the center channel to give me more play in the tire as I mounted it.

    A question for Jerk: Is there a clincher tire that is easier to mount on the WTO rims? I know from the other string on tires you said the Campy engineers do all their testing with Vittoria. Am I going to have a better time with them vs Veloflex? And if I do go to the tubeless is there a preferred tire for ease of installation for that too?
    I've got Continental GP5000s (clincher, not tubeless) on my WTOs and they mounted up without much fuss. Veloflex Masters/Corsas, in my experience, are pretty tight and tough to get on when brand new. Combine that with a tubeless rim like the Bora and you've got a tough combo there.
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    Default Re: Bora WTO wheels

    About tire levers: I'm using a plastic lever with alloy rims (non-tubeless), when I need to. Can't see how this could be an issue.

    Comments?
     

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    Default Re: Bora WTO wheels

    Quote Originally Posted by thomas View Post
    About tire levers: I'm using a plastic lever with alloy rims (non-tubeless), when I need to. Can't see how this could be an issue.

    Comments?
    I dont think it is on aluminum rims. Most often it is only on the initial install. After that things are stretched a bit and hands are all you need. It is a good way to pinch a tube, either between the lever and the rim or by levering the tire bead onto the edge of the tube. But were all pros here, so thats not going to happen.

    I could see where it might be bad practice on carbon rims. And I have zero experience with tubeless tires except the ones I send back when some shop sends me tubeless instead of the regular version.

    Sounds like tubeless tires can be a bit like tubular tires putting them on the first time, so maybe prestretch on an old set of wheels that anything will mount on? Old MA40s or something.
     

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    Default Re: Bora WTO wheels

    I recently mounted the new Veloflex Corsa Race 25mm onto my WTO wheels. They were tighter than Vittoria Corsa G+ but I was able to get them on without unusual effort. It was at night so I didn't put them in the sun to warm first and I wished I did.
     

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    Default Re: Bora WTO wheels

    Quote Originally Posted by jerk View Post
    don't use tire levers to put a tire on- ever.

    if you're not going to listen then at least use the ones that came with the Boras. they're really good and unlikely to damage the rim. regarding the width thing-it has to do with your tire mfg sticking by the ERTO rules and Campy sticking by what they've decided to do. those tires will be fine on those wheels. But please- don't use tire levers to get a tire on. Try a different technique, find a gorilla, start at the valve, yell, scream, swear, etc. But don't put road bike tires on with tire levers.
    Well, no, you can't just say it as an absolute.
    And it's not just about the carbon rims, people can damage aluminium rims too, if they're not doing it right.
    Damaged rims almost always occurr when people will use tyre levers trying to make leverage by the middle of the last section to fit. That is making a lot of leverage on the rim's side&hook, and can deform it (on aluminium) or crack it (on carbon). If the levers are used correctly, by staying right after the last portion of the tyre that's already in the rim, the most you can get it's a rubbing mark that will disappear right away.

    There are a few things related to difficulty of fitting (and removing!) tyres, especially on tubeless-compatible rims:
    • tyre sizing may vary a lot more than the rim sizing
    • any of the two may adere to the former ETRTO size with more or less tolerance
    • if the rim is tubeless-compatible its tolerance will be tight
    • the above, a road-rim will almost always have a profile that hooks really tight wit the tyre bead
    • because the above, it will be difficult to remove the Tubeless tyre once installed
    • mind you, tubeless tyres have a bead that's bigger, and this can cause problems in keeping both tyre beads in the centrer of the rim (there may not be enough space)
    • center of the rim: this is your magic spot for make easier the fit of a tight tyre. The concave middle of the rim's well is in fact a smaller ERD and that will greatly help you in fitting the tyre
    • contrary to populare believe: start fitting a tight tyre opposite the valve. Why? See above, if you have the first portion of the tyre by the valve, the thicker part of the inner tube (or the rubber bung of the Tubeless valve) will not make the tyre going in the middle of the rim, hence the tyre bead will stay on the real ERD instead of the smaller one as in the rim's well
    • if everything else fail, go to your trusted shop and ask for a set of used Open Pro's that they are going to dispose, put some thin rim tape and fit those tight tyres keeping them a week on 100psi (just don't do it on very worn' rims, ok?) and they may give a little bit
    Andrea "Gattonero" Cattolico, head mechanic @Condor Cycles London


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