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Thread: Appeal to Curt Goodrich

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    Default Appeal to Curt Goodrich

    I write this with a great deal of hesitation as I feel this is an inappropriate venue to have this conversation, however, I really have no other recourse as I have exhausted all other forms of communication (i.e., you don’t answer your phone or return my repeated messages, you don’t answer my multiple emails to either your old netzero.net address or newer curtgoodrich.com address and your VSalon pm box is full and has been for many months). Hopefully the forum administrators will recognize this as such and not erase it. Since I now see you are posting with some frequency on the salon, this is the only way I know to communicate with you. I originally in good faith gave you a $1000 deposit on my frame order in June 2007. This was done after a great deal of research on my part and careful consideration. I was impressed by the bikes you built for Douglas Brooks, Dr. Dennis Cotcamp, Rob Weaver and others. You sounded like a trustworthy and skilled builder in your interview on the ‘Large Fella on a Bike’ blog with Scott Cutshall. I placed my order with you with great excitement despite the fact that I then worked at a bike shop and could have gotten a custom Seven or Independent Fabrication at shop ‘cost’. Additionally, $1000 was a great expense for me that I saved for many months given my then and still now, small monthly student salary. We spoke on the phone a couple of times and you assured me that my build would take, give or take, a year to complete.

    I patiently waited and never inquired about the status of my frame until we spoke in person at the NAHBS in Indianapolis in February 2009. As this was now over a year and a half after my initial order I inquired when you estimated my spot in the queue would arrive and you told me that you weren’t sure as you didn’t have your list with you in Indy but that you thought there was only 1-2 more builds until my order would be up. I remember feeling some comfort in your founding membership in the then newly formed ‘Framebuilders’ Collective. ‘ We then had no further contact until your unsolicited email on February 25, 2010. In it you wrote, “

    I hope this letter finds you well. Its purpose is threefold:
    1. To apologize
    2. To reset expectations
    3. To make a promise
    …..…
    But the intent of this section is not to make excuses, but to simply ask for your forgiveness and patience. So I’m asking.
    So where do we go from here? First and foremost you should know that you WILL get your Goodrich frame and it will be the finest work of which I am capable. Even though I haven’t completely worked through the personal issues referred to above, I am back to full capacity in building frames.
    …..
    I plan to start building your frame on or around 4/2/2010.
    I hope you are not too disappointed, but I absolutely understand if you are. Please also consider that about two years ago, I received 20 or so orders in very close proximity to each other. That coupled with my build rate of 30-35 frames a year means that there is a minimum of 6 months from first to last. I queued them in the order that I received the deposits.
    So now you probably fall into one of three categories:
    1. While disappointed, you are ok with the revised schedule
    2. The revised schedule simply won’t work for you. You need your frame sooner or not at all
    3. I no longer want a Curt Goodrich frame, the experience has just been too frustrating
    …..
    Now for those in the first two categories, I was hoping we could relive the scene from “It’s a Wonderful Life” where a run on the bank is narrowly averted. In the movie, the bank’s depositors are trying to withdraw all of their money, but George asks each customer to consider withdrawing only how much they need. So in the same spirit, I ask you to consider how flexible you are with regard to delivery of your frame. Please note that my commitment is to meet the date above, but if you have the flexibility to wait a bit longer that would allow me to potentially accommodate the individuals in category 2 above. Thank you for your consideration in this regard.
    Please respond with enough information that I can put you in one of the following categories.
    a) I’m ok with my target delivery date
    b) I would like to keep my target delivery date, but have some flexibility
    c) I need my frame sooner or I don’t want it
    d) I don’t want it at this point
    Lastly, I want to make you a promise or really a series of promises:
    I will answer your e-mails
    I will return your phone calls
    I will proactively alert you if the schedule changes, in either direction
    I will build you the best frame I know how”

    I foolishly tried to help you out as it seemed you were in a tough spot and chose option ‘b) I would like to keep my target delivery date, but have some flexibility’. That was the last time we ever spoke. My multiple email messages, phone calls and messages have since gone unanswered. It has been 4 ½ years since I gave you my deposit so even if you didn’t receive any of my correspondence it seems rational that you would have contacted me by now as neither my phone number nor email address have changed in the interim. My shop coworkers, teammates, friends and family think I’m an idiot and tell me to consider my money gone. My attorney sister is encouraging me to file a lawsuit.
    MN theft statute: https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=609.52
    Subd. 2.Acts constituting theft. Whoever does any of the following commits theft and may be sentenced as provided in subdivision 3:
    (3) obtains for the actor or another the possession, custody, or title to property of or performance of services by a third person by intentionally deceiving the third person with a false representation which is known to be false, made with intent to defraud, and which does defraud the person to whom it is made. "False representation" includes without limitation:
    (ii) a promise made with intent not to perform. Failure to perform is not evidence of intent not to perform unless corroborated by other substantial evidence; or
    (4) by swindling, whether by artifice, trick, device, or any other means, obtains property or services from another person; or
    (5) intentionally commits any of the acts listed in this subdivision but with intent to exercise temporary control only and:
    (i) the control exercised manifests an indifference to the rights of the owner or the restoration of the property to the owner;

    I continue perhaps foolishly hold out hope and give you the benefit of the doubt as I watch intermittent new builds posted to your flickr page. Curt, how about a little guidance here? Will you please contact me (pm me, return the phone message I left two weeks ago on your machine, tell me to go fuck myself?!?)? ANYTHING? In the spirit of Christmas if nothing more, can I please get some communication?
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    Default Re: Appeal to Curt Goodrich


    .....
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    Default Re: Appeal to Curt Goodrich

    and we're off and running. these threads have the morbid appeal that slows people down when passing car accidents

    and yet if come here and get lots of props for bikes well made, well, maybe sometimes the opposite happens too.
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    Default Re: Appeal to Curt Goodrich

    Cognitive dissonance: How I feel reading these threads versus how I feel when i am riding my Goodrich.
    This is a sad situation.
    What more to say?
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    Default Re: Appeal to Curt Goodrich

    Quote Originally Posted by cw05 View Post
    I remember feeling some comfort in your founding membership in the then newly formed ‘Framebuilders’ Collective.‘
    doesn't look like he is anymore

    guess the atmobros grew some teeth
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    Default Re: Appeal to Curt Goodrich

    Quote Originally Posted by marcelia View Post
    and yet if come here and get lots of props for bikes well made, well, maybe sometimes the opposite happens too.
    it ain't a community if it's always applauding
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    Default Re: Appeal to Curt Goodrich

    Find out if Goodrich is still taking deposits. If he is, sue him. Consider it a favor to the next sucker to about to send him a deposit.
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    Default Re: Appeal to Curt Goodrich

    I hate to tell you but the only way you're going to get money or a frame out of Curt at this point is Mafia style.

    Sorry to hear about your situation.
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    Default Re: Appeal to Curt Goodrich

    The purpose of this thread was truly not to start a character assasination. I just simply want Curt to contact me and right this wrong.
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    Default Re: Appeal to Curt Goodrich

    I have no dog in this fight but have followed the saga. I also noticed that Curt was building again--which I was happy to hear--and posting more. Hopefully he has been tying up loose ends as far as customers who have been waiting way too long, and this is one more opportunity for him to just address this head on and take care of it. I don't think there was anything in the OP's post that merits closing the thread; hopefully others will take the high road as well. Curt, nothing you say could be worse than silence--people's ability to be patient and forgive is amazing, but you need to give them a reason to believe the solution is in sight.
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    Default Re: Appeal to Curt Goodrich

    I have read more than one of these threads on the Serotta forum including an attempt by a customer to solve this quandry. Another builder also indicated he would like to help but I am not sure how as that builder has a multi-year waiting list. You obviously know what happened, I don't. I am speculating that the money was spent for living expenses and Curt Goodrich is probably building new orders and working the old ones in as cash flow allows, or not; only he knows for sure since you do not appear to be the only one he is not corresponding with. I am not sure how recent his posts are here but they seem to be the very highest quality showing extreme knowledge at least from my perspective.

    Hindsight being 20/20 an escrow account is better than a deposit but I am not sure how much this procedure is used in small business but I believe it is a common practice for large ticket items. Food for thought if I ever decide to have a custom frame built that requires a deposit to hold a space on the build waiting list.

    I am glad that he either voluntarily withdrew from the Framebuilders' Collective or was thrown out because every organization has to self-regulate itself if it wants to have any integrity.

    My two cents. I hope it works out okay.
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    Default Re: Appeal to Curt Goodrich

    I would be interested to know what about Curt Goodrich appealed to you versus shop cost of a Seven or IF. Was it still less cost even with your discount or something else?
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    Default Re: Appeal to Curt Goodrich

    Can't believe no one has taken him to small claims court yet.

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    Default Re: Appeal to Curt Goodrich

    Why a bad idea?

    Why is he babbling on about food topics?

    Just curious.
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    Default Re: Appeal to Curt Goodrich

    Quote Originally Posted by SerottaLegend58 View Post
    I would be interested to know what about Curt Goodrich appealed to you versus shop cost of a Seven or IF. Was it still less cost even with your discount or something else?
    I simply wanted an randonneuse/sportif type bike with fenders/rack as part of the design. No it was not cheaper....I could have gotten a Crown Jewel or whatever the steel Seven equivalent was at that time for much less via employee purchase. I also wanted to support Curt as he was just starting to build full-time under his lown label.
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    Default Re: Appeal to Curt Goodrich

    Why do I get the feeling this issue shouldn't be addressed like this?
    Not Riding!
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    Default Re: Appeal to Curt Goodrich

    If he hasn't returned email or phone calls for a year +, I'm thinking it might not be a matter of a full vsalon inbox...
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    Default Re: Appeal to Curt Goodrich

    Quote Originally Posted by pdxmech13 View Post
    Why do I get the feeling this issue shouldn't be addressed like this?
    Because it shouldn't. Please be my guest if you can facilitate another solution. I have tried all ad nauseum.
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    Default Re: Appeal to Curt Goodrich

    cw05, you made an honest appeal after years of waiting and hoping. I hope that you receive at a minimum direct communication.
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    Default Re: Appeal to Curt Goodrich

    At this point would you still want a bike built by him? Would you wait? I know this sounds like his questions to you from a couple of years ago but I am curious.

    I think that you have been very restrained in your post and I hope that you find some end to this.

    Quote Originally Posted by cw05 View Post
    Because it shouldn't. Please be my guest if you can facilitate another solution. I have tried all ad nauseum.
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