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Thread: Anyone ride tubulars anymore?

  1. #81
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    Default Re: Anyone ride tubulars anymore?

    Quote Originally Posted by open roader View Post
    I'm still riding tubulars and still feel the benefit of them but my latest road wheel set are going to be clinchers with lighter weight butyl tubes.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again - I'm a comfort seeker. My days of hard training and pure performance are behind me. The rural roads I ride on are typically made of chunky crushed rock made up to an unsophisticated rough chip seal finish for the purpose of carrying truck traffic. Potholes are plentiful and more so surface degredation with corrugations are pock marked delaminated tar patches are standard. This all equals plenty of road buzz. So I appreciate the lower pressures tubulars can operate at without pinching whilst supplying a supple, vibration absorbing ride.

    However, that said, recently I fitted some fresh tyres to a friend's clincher wheels and tested them on my own bike for a week and ran a few psi above my usual tubular pressures to discover the ride feel was more than adequate for my comfort seeking backside and wrists and also the light weight butyl tubes did not pinch flat even when I plunged the bike into rough patches and even some shallow but sharp lipped pot holes........... That was good enough for me to 'revert back' to clinchers for a new wheel set when clincher rims were the only option for my preferred spec. on this particular bike build.
    I have to admit that with most newer frames accepting tires 28mm or wider the case for tubular is less and less obvious. When 22/23mm tires were the standard you could feel a dramatic difference in "comfort" / "pinch flat risk" ratio. But teh more volume there is, the less difference it makes between the 2 techs. If you are pinchflatting a 28mm clincher, you should start looking where you put your wheels.

    That said, all my road wheels are tubulars and using disc brakes and carbon they have an almost infinite lifespan so I don't have any reason to replace them and switch to tubeless. Plus I still like the added security of a tire that doesn't go off the rim when deflated.
    --
    T h o m a s

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    Default Re: Anyone ride tubulars anymore?

    I just have never gotten enough flats to merit doing anything other than pulling the tube and putting another one in. But then I'm not trying to run my tires at 25psi and race Dirty Kanza either.

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    Default Re: Anyone ride tubulars anymore?

    Just curious, any reason why tubulars are better than clinchers in terms of puncture resistance if we take away pinch flats? I mean all the objects that cut the tires damage tubulars and clinchers to the same extent, no?

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    Default Re: Anyone ride tubulars anymore?

    Quote Originally Posted by amaro View Post
    Just curious, any reason why tubulars are better than clinchers in terms of puncture resistance if we take away pinch flats? I mean all the objects that cut the tires damage tubulars and clinchers to the same extent, no?
    I'd like a definitive answer to that too.

    What I do know is that tubulars are genuinely better than clinchers for avoiding pinch flats. I did a heap of testing years ago when I switched to tubulars (at considerable expense to myself I might ad) with Campagnolo Eurus with 25mm and 28mm clincher tyres fitted with regular butyl tubes vs Campagnolo Shamal tubulars with 25mm and 28mm tubulars made with latex tubes. I killed several butyl tubes in the process riding my bike over the same piece of cruddy road at various real world pressures. I'm still yet to pinch flat a tubular even with me+bike weighing 88.5kg and running 63psi front (25mm) and 73psi rear (28mm)

    My only guesses are the way latex tube deforms inside a sewn up tubular vs the way a butyl tube deforms inside a clincher tyre. Maybe the clincher rim shoulders which are lacking on a tubular rim are the difference. Hopefully someone more experienced will enlighten us.........?

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    Default Re: Anyone ride tubulars anymore?

    Here it is:

    - Buy only the very best handmade tubulars, silk casing is a plus
    - Put them them in a dark temperature and humidity controlled cave for 2 to 4 years so that they can dry
    - It's important that the cave only have french and italian red wines in it, no white wines this would screw up the tubular
    - Once aged properly, the tubular have to be glued using exclusively thin layers of Italian tubular glue
    - Before glueing the tubular needs to be stretch on a brand new nemesis rim (other rims will produce inferior results)
    - The stretching time can vary and depends on the exact aging time of the tubular. This part is quite complex to explain and involves some tricky math
    - Each layer needs to be applied within a very specific time compared to the next, the curing time varies from layer to layer, the vintage of the tubular glue also has an influence, PM me for details
    - Once installed you must then wait for 24 to 36 hours with 9.7 bars into the tub. The pressure needs to be topped off every 2 hours so that it never drops below 9 bars.

    If followed completely the above protocol guarantees no flat for 1500 miles, which is the most you can expect for a decent tubular of course. Any deviation will result in a maximum of half the flats you would get with a clincher.

    This is a short summary, I am available (on a consulting basis a for a a fairly large fee) to explain the complete details.

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    Default Re: Anyone ride tubulars anymore?

    I actually found out over the years that inflating at too much pressure right after the glue job tend to make the tubular roll slightly to one side and do not really change the quality of the bond. And I hate seeing an offcenter tread, even by half a mm.

    I actually think the added resistance of tubulars against pinch flat is simply a consequence of having a rim bed without sidewalls. I don't prefer the tubulars because I flat less with them, I prefer them because if I flat I have more chance to stay on the bike or direct it to a safe place to stop, especially on downhills. I know some people with very bad experience of getting thrown over the bar by a front tire getting of the rim in an alpine descent. The end result was really nasty.
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    T h o m a s

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    Default Re: Anyone ride tubulars anymore?

    The lower likelihood of pinch flats makes sense. Beyond pinch flats, though, shards of glass and bits of wire don't care one bit what type of tire you ride. That is unless you use Lionel's patented method, as posted above.*







    *Results may vary; flat prevention not actually guaranteed.
    "I guess you're some weird relic of an obsolete age." - davids

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    Default Re: Anyone ride tubulars anymore?

    Just picked up a set of bora tubs. veloflex glued up.

    yes, they are excellent!


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    Default Re: Anyone ride tubulars anymore?

    Quote Originally Posted by open roader View Post
    I'd like a definitive answer to that too.

    What I do know is that tubulars are genuinely better than clinchers for avoiding pinch flats. I did a heap of testing years ago when I switched to tubulars (at considerable expense to myself I might ad) with Campagnolo Eurus with 25mm and 28mm clincher tyres fitted with regular butyl tubes vs Campagnolo Shamal tubulars with 25mm and 28mm tubulars made with latex tubes. I killed several butyl tubes in the process riding my bike over the same piece of cruddy road at various real world pressures. I'm still yet to pinch flat a tubular even with me+bike weighing 88.5kg and running 63psi front (25mm) and 73psi rear (28mm)

    My only guesses are the way latex tube deforms inside a sewn up tubular vs the way a butyl tube deforms inside a clincher tyre. Maybe the clincher rim shoulders which are lacking on a tubular rim are the difference. Hopefully someone more experienced will enlighten us.........?
    The operant hypothesis is that latex is stretchier than butyl, so the latex tubes inside most high quality tubulars can withstand being pinched between road and rim to thinner dimensions without being pulled apart and thus opening a hole by the air pressure. If the hypothesis is true, and if you did the same experiments with similar latex tubes inside clincher tires, you might get statistically different results.

    Another difference is that sew-ups don't have a bead, and than the pressure is more evenly distributed inside the tire. This allows one to use a thinner latex tube for a given pressure and final size of tire. Potential advantage in weight savings, but that's less of a problem now, when bikes are already too light for UCI...

    All that said, I still ride on tubulars, and I actually enjoy all the exclusivity, the thrill of finding a good tubular on sale, and the inanity of the whole process... :-)

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    Default Re: Anyone ride tubulars anymore?

    I have some Ambrosio Nemesis rims/Campagnolo Record hub wheels which I was riding awhile back with Vittoria Rally tubulars...the worst tyres ever but they were cheap so I gave them a go.

    But I do have some new 25mm Continental Sprinter Gatorskins I'm going to install, I rarely get punctures on my clincher wheels (Veloflex) so I'm hoping that the new Conti tubulars are pretty puncture resistant to offset my inability to repair them.
    Riding has to be fun, and part of the fun has to be that you’re not worried about having too much technology on your bike. - Tom Ritchey

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    Default Re: Anyone ride tubulars anymore?

    I could not get Conti gator skins off my wheels fast enough. Garden hose would give a better ride. Life is too short ... buy nice tubolari and enjoy.

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    Default Re: Anyone ride tubulars anymore?

    I've read similar reviews but surely can't be worse than the Rally tubulars? I'm too lazy to learn to repair myself and live too faraway from any city that does have someone who does repair tubulars.

    If I had my way and the income I'd just buy a constant supply of Veloflex tubulars...
    Riding has to be fun, and part of the fun has to be that you’re not worried about having too much technology on your bike. - Tom Ritchey

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    Default Re: Anyone ride tubulars anymore?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sascha Roszak View Post
    I've read similar reviews but surely can't be worse than the Rally tubulars? I'm too lazy to learn to repair myself and live too faraway from any city that does have someone who does repair tubulars.

    If I had my way and the income I'd just buy a constant supply of Veloflex tubulars...
    I have Gatorskins on my Nemesis. I carry Rally as spares on two bikes and have used them on several occasions.

    My verdict: I have been thinking of stripping away the Gatorskins and replacing them with Rally, but I've been too lazy to do it. I don't even want a Gatorskin as a spare.

    But to your point about puncture resistance of Gatorskins, they have been very good in that respect and that respect alone.
    Chikashi Miyamoto

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    Default Re: Anyone ride tubulars anymore?

    Gatorskins roll like a tractor.
    Chikashi Miyamoto

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    Default Re: Anyone ride tubulars anymore?

    You will love the Rally's...they have a wonderful hop at the valve you can't miss!
    Riding has to be fun, and part of the fun has to be that you’re not worried about having too much technology on your bike. - Tom Ritchey

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    Default Re: Anyone ride tubulars anymore?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sascha Roszak View Post
    You will love the Rally's...they have a wonderful hop at the valve you can't miss!
    I noticed that with one but not the other.
    Chikashi Miyamoto

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    Default Re: Anyone ride tubulars anymore?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chik View Post
    Gatorskins roll like a tractor.
    This one rolls on Veloflex.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Default Re: Anyone ride tubulars anymore?

    My tubulars are all gone and I don't really see myself going back. The only reason is for the safety of a blowout on a high-speed descent but those are rare for me nowadays. Hopefully not forever but that's another story.

    For me the moment of truth came when I rode with 20mm internal width clinchers and tires inflated to lower pressure, like 80ish PSI. The tire shape changes for the better with the wider rims and the ride quality improved dramatically over old clinchers on narrow rims.

    I started to have some issues with my then ancient Campagnolo Nucleon tubular wheels, breaking spokes occasionally. Sold them off as I moved away from my also ancient 10-speed Campagnolo and there you have it. I had one set for my Shimano 11-speed and they went away a month or so ago, followed by my stash of Veloflex tires. I'm in the all clincher camp now and I'm OK with that.

    A decade ago I was all tubular, all the time. Times change.
    La Cheeserie!

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    Default Re: Anyone ride tubulars anymore?

    Quote Originally Posted by Saab2000 View Post
    My tubulars are all gone and I don't really see myself going back. The only reason is for the safety of a blowout on a high-speed descent but those are rare for me nowadays. Hopefully not forever but that's another story.

    For me the moment of truth came when I rode with 20mm internal width clinchers and tires inflated to lower pressure, like 80ish PSI. The tire shape changes for the better with the wider rims and the ride quality improved dramatically over old clinchers on narrow rims.

    I started to have some issues with my then ancient Campagnolo Nucleon tubular wheels, breaking spokes occasionally. Sold them off as I moved away from my also ancient 10-speed Campagnolo and there you have it. I had one set for my Shimano 11-speed and they went away a month or so ago, followed by my stash of Veloflex tires. I'm in the all clincher camp now and I'm OK with that.

    A decade ago I was all tubular, all the time. Times change.

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    Default Re: Anyone ride tubulars anymore?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sascha Roszak View Post
    I've read similar reviews but surely can't be worse than the Rally tubulars? I'm too lazy to learn to repair myself and live too faraway from any city that does have someone who does repair tubulars.

    If I had my way and the income I'd just buy a constant supply of Veloflex tubulars...
    Tubs are pretty easy to fix. Large needle, thick thread, barge cement and a patch kit and away you go. Faster than messing with a leaking tubeless tire/rim.
    - Brad Comis

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