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Thread: Another geometry thread - gravel

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    Default Another geometry thread - gravel

    A shop local to me sells Curve Cycles, the Australian brand of mostly Ti bikes.

    They seem reasonably good and have a good rep in the endurance/adventure circles.

    For the moment I am a tirekicker for a gravel/touring bike of sort and researching. The below struck me as odd, as I am not sure how that will affect handling? Can such a geometry be right, adding 2.5cm to a top tube and shortening stem by 30mm?

    "Open your mind to some new numbers with the GXR. It's long, so run a short stem to get the best handling out of this puppy.

    For example if you are fitted to a 54cm road bike running a 110mm stem, we advise a Medium GXR with an 80mm Stem or similar.

    Be aware - Stand over is tall. Even on the smaller sizes. Why? Because cargo space on long adventures is important! We wanted to enable shorter riders to hold as much cargo as possible, so the larger triangle won the battle of cargo vs. standover."

    From the page here : Kevin of Steel - (Curve GXR) -Gravel Adventure CX Race Bike - Curve Cycling
     

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    Default Re: Another geometry thread - gravel

    It's the same trend that's going on with MTBs, longer front centers coupled with shorter stems. With the front wheel further out, the bike becomes more stable. The shorter stem keeps your hands where they belong.
    Dustin Gaddis
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    Default Re: Another geometry thread - gravel

    Touring bikes back in the day did this to manage loaded panniers. It might mean that this bike is built for a different purpose than you want though. If you arenít going bikepacking and/or carrying bags strung all over your bike like laundry then you might want something different.
     

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    Default Re: Another geometry thread - gravel

    I would also check the wheelbase dimension as well as headtube angle. The current gravel trend is to slacken the angle as well as increase wheelbase to increase stability and tire clearance. It all depends on what you want. A racing rig? Adventurer? A little of both? I've raced a very stable, big clearance rig for a number of years now and have never felt like my results were affected. If anything, the rougher the road gets, the more I appreciate being able to maintain a line.
     

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    Default Re: Another geometry thread - gravel

    Quote Originally Posted by brucegaultney View Post
    I would also check the wheelbase dimension as well as headtube angle. The current gravel trend is to slacken the angle as well as increase wheelbase to increase stability and tire clearance. It all depends on what you want. A racing rig? Adventurer? A little of both? I've raced a very stable, big clearance rig for a number of years now and have never felt like my results were affected. If anything, the rougher the road gets, the more I appreciate being able to maintain a line.
    I know some folks want a gravel rig that handles like their road bike...I don't get it. When things get fast, and loose or rowdy, stability is king. 40+mph is easily attainable on the chunky gravel roads around here if you're willing to stay off the brakes, and our high points are less than 500ft above sea level hahaha. Stability is goooooood.
    Last edited by dgaddis; 10-18-2018 at 10:57 AM.
    Dustin Gaddis
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    Default Re: Another geometry thread - gravel

    It's a compromise. You also do not want a truck on the road. If ridden only offload, it's better to get a hardtail.
     

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    Default Re: Another geometry thread - gravel

    Quote Originally Posted by dgaddis View Post
    I know some folks want a gravel rig that handles like their road bike...I don't get it. When things get fast, and loose or rowdy, stability is king. 40+mph is easily attainable on the chunky gravel roads around here if you're willing to stay off the brakes, and our high points are less than 500ft above sea level hahaha. Stability is goooooood.
    I am fully on board with stubby and high when it comes to mtb. However, I'm still getting warmed up to it for drop bar dirt riding because all dirty bikes feel right to me when like the cx bike. Perhaps where this is going is that the recent wave of gravel bikes are not supposed to ride like ye olde cx bike, so stubby and high can apply for loose, rowdy and stable.
    Steve Park

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    Default Re: Another geometry thread - gravel

    Similar to what I build for gravel if left to my own devices -- long FC, "slack", high trail, short stem, shortish rear end. Though I don't do much with loads (usually just carry bottles on the bike, everything else in pockets), so the higher top tube doesn't really mean much to me. But the long front end makes a huge difference off pavement, and I've found it to not be a detriment on pavement. Even on my personal road bike I've stretched out the front end and gone to a shorter stem, but my days on the crit course are behind me. I've found I really like that stability.
    DT

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    Default Re: Another geometry thread - gravel

    Quote Originally Posted by David Tollefson View Post
    But the long front end makes a huge difference off pavement, and I've found it to not be a detriment on pavement.
    I think it's a balance depend on what, where and how you are riding. My gravel bike has a longer front center, slacker head angle, etc. than my road bike and I 100% agree about its prowess on dirt, but a lot of my mixed rides include fast twisty paved descents, and I really notice the long front center there. I have to move my weight forward agressively to make it corner like I think it should.
     

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    Default Re: Another geometry thread - gravel

    Useful thoughts as always, thanks.

    Unlikely to go camping but long days on gravel is in the future. I will try the Ti version soon and see how that feels. I was wondering if the logic is sound, and it seems it is.
     

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    Default Re: Another geometry thread - gravel

    Can you post the geometry? It seems like that set does not work in USA?

    The longer tt/shorter stem might work well- But you can't take 1 measurement in isolation.
    Head angle and fork rake matter, as does front center and total wheelbase.

    I lengthened the tt and shortened stem on my latest custom gravel bike- But only by 1cm.
    But this change was combined with a specific head angle and fork rake-
    These changes were an improvement. The extra length eliminated my toe clip overlap, but the
    head angle, rake and trail created a nimble but still stable front end.
    Overall wheelbase is not too long because my bike has short stays (for a gravel bike).
     

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    Default Re: Another geometry thread - gravel

    Air yuh go Bruce! (assuming he meant this one*.)

    Screen Shot 2018-10-18 at 5.47.25 PM.png

    *Website seems only to function using Chrome.
    Last edited by j44ke; 10-18-2018 at 05:50 PM.
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    Default Re: Another geometry thread - gravel

    Playing with Bikecad something seems very wrong with the listed specs- With a 100mm headtube, this bike would need a chopper of a fork to achieve that amount of stack.
    Front center also does not seem to add up with the angles and various lengths-
     

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    Default Re: Another geometry thread - gravel

    Well, it looks like a drop-bar mountain bike basically. At least to me.

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    Default Re: Another geometry thread - gravel

    Ach - I got the wrong damn bike. The OP was talking about a different GXR.



    Screen Shot 2018-10-18 at 6.40.34 PM.png
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    Default Re: Another geometry thread - gravel

    Quote Originally Posted by j44ke View Post
    Well, it looks like a drop-bar mountain bike basically. At least to me.

    Is that photoshopped?
     

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    Default Re: Another geometry thread - gravel

    Dont't believe its photoshopped no.

    Strange the difference between the steel GXR and Ti, I was under the impression they were the same? Will ask tomorrow. (sat)
     

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    Default Re: Another geometry thread - gravel

    So how does the long front center, short stem affect the other end of the riding spectrum? If it is good for high speed stability on fast downhills, how will it handle when I start back up the gravel hill at 5mph? Will it track straight or will the front end tend to wander around?
     

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    Default Re: Another geometry thread - gravel

    I've never had a problem with mine.
    DT

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    Some are born to move the world to live their fantasies...

    "the fun outweighs the suck, and the suck hasn't killed me yet." -- chasea

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    Default Re: Another geometry thread - gravel

    A long frame, with a steepish head angle , will still handle nervous.
    I ride a rigid 64.5 cm top tube 29 "MTB with a 72 HA on gravel, and it is more nervous than my road bikes.
    Don't let people scare you with teams as "barge""boat anchor", You want stability , and no toe overlap if possible.
     

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