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Thread: Another geometry thread - gravel

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    Default Re: Another geometry thread - gravel

    Here's a proper all-road bike given the current handlebar limitations. Pretty much everything on the market is a complete joke and it's probably not worth wasting money on.

    218 PVD Bird of Prey | Peter Verdone Designs



    "...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn."

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    Default Re: Another geometry thread - gravel

    Quote Originally Posted by pvd View Post
    Pretty much everything on the market is a complete joke and it's probably not worth wasting money on.
    Care to elaborate?
     

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    Default Re: Another geometry thread - gravel

    Take for example the Curve bike being discussed:

    A 620mm front center for a large all-road bike. That's just fundamentally stupid and uninformed. 432mm chainstays? My mountain bikes use 425mm chainstays, my all-road uses 420mm stays. This thing is a slug. The 73mm seat tube angle is pooky, AF. Probably good for a touring bike but not for a banger.

    Worse, it has a 27.2mm seat post. WTF planet are these people living on? Good luck finding a quality 27.2mm dropper post. Yes they exist, they all suck.

    Then there's the gearing problem. 11-42 only? I don't know what kind of rides these folks are planning but it must not involve dirt climbs AND paved roads. My bike has 644% reduction. That makes all-road mean something.
    "...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn."

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    Default Re: Another geometry thread - gravel

    Quote Originally Posted by pvd View Post
    The 73mm seat tube angle is pooky, AF. Probably good for a touring bike but not for a banger.
    73 degrees? Unless human physiology is changing as quickly as the climate, that position over the pedals has enabled us to do all kinds of fun stuff on the bike, and it will continue to work in the future.

    Bang on, TH
     

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    Default Re: Another geometry thread - gravel

    Quote Originally Posted by rabo View Post
    Care to elaborate?
    The short version, in case you're not interested in reading the dogmatic ramblings of pvd:

    It isn't like the bikes i make for myself, therefor it's crap.
    DT

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    Default Re: Another geometry thread - gravel

    Quote Originally Posted by pvd View Post
    Here's a proper all-road bike given the current handlebar limitations. Pretty much everything on the market is a complete joke and it's probably not worth wasting money on.

    218 PVD Bird of Prey | Peter Verdone Designs



    This looks like an ugly mess to me.
     

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    Default Re: Another geometry thread - gravel

    This looks like modern mtb geo applied to road bars. I wouldn't say it looks good or bad, just different. I wouldn't mind trying a bike like that and do back to back comparisons with a more traditionnal cross/gravel bike both off and on the road.

    Before saying one kind of bike is crap we must agree that every songle rider on this planet has it's own definition of what gravel riding is and what would be the upper limit in off roading with that kind of bike before switching to an MTB. I know I tend to ride my cross bike on single tracks and technical descents more than I ride long stretches of gravel roads. Iwouldn't mind a dropper sometimes but I also understand I am a bit of an outlier. A real MTB would do the job better in most of my rides and a dropper may be way out of place on most people's gravel bikes.

    @pvd: I've not studied geo numbers precisely but couldn't we achieve the same result by using a regular modern mtb frame andattach the bar to a very short MTB stem ?
    Last edited by sk_tle; 10-21-2018 at 03:36 AM.
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    Default Re: Another geometry thread - gravel

    Quote Originally Posted by pvd View Post
    Here's a proper all-road bike given the current handlebar limitations. Pretty much everything on the market is a complete joke and it's probably not worth wasting money on.

    218 PVD Bird of Prey | Peter Verdone Designs
    Confucious says..
    "He who is most certain knows the least.."
    Last edited by SteveP; 10-21-2018 at 09:34 AM.
     

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    Default Re: Another geometry thread - gravel

    Quote Originally Posted by j44ke View Post
    Well, it looks like a drop-bar mountain bike basically. At least to me.
    It is.

    71/73*

    430-ish CS

    But........

    That's kind of what people who want "G***** Bikes" actually want.


    First questions always are

    "Can I stick a bigger tire on this?"

    and

    "Is this comparable with MTB calipers, etc"





    Just use a little lighter tubes then a true MTB and it'll ride awesome.

    - Garro.
    Steve Garro, Coconino Cycles.
    Frames & Bicycles built to measure and Custom wheels
    Hecho en Flagstaff, Arizona desde 2003
    www.coconinocycles.com
    www.coconinocycles.blogspot.com

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    Default Re: Another geometry thread - gravel

    Quote Originally Posted by steve garro View Post
    It is.

    71/73*

    430-ish CS

    But........

    That's kind of what people who want "G***** Bikes" actually want.


    First questions always are

    "Can I stick a bigger tire on this?"

    and

    "Is this comparable with MTB calipers, etc"





    Just use a little lighter tubes then a true MTB and it'll ride awesome.

    - Garro.
    This is brillant....

    as my buddy Nick says "Hardtail Mountain Bike is the new gravel bike."

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    Default Re: Another geometry thread - gravel

    Quote Originally Posted by joosttx View Post
    as my buddy Nick says "Hardtail Mountain Bike is the new gravel bike."
    Except my hardtail MTB has the pedals 1.5 to 2 cm farther off the ground. That makes a difference.
    Tee Aitch

    Give a man a fish and feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime. Teach a man to cycle and he will realize fishing is stupid and boring. -- Desmond Tutu

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    Default Re: Another geometry thread - gravel

    The gravel bike I ride/designed is pretty close to the Curve, except not quite as long, and I only use a stem 10mm shorter than my road bike.

    Quite frankly, I love it. I don't ride much singletrack, most of the riding I do is on fire roads or similar. Most of these I can ride on my road bike, but it's a lot faster and smoother with my gravel bike. It was great for D2R2, can't think of anything I would have changed.

    I'm primarily a road rider, so I'm looking for something that's a lot like my road bike, but takes the edge off the bumps, and gives me traction on loose climbs. It seems like riders who are primarily mountain riders are looking for a bike that can handle as much as Iof their normal mountain rides, but goes a little faster on pavement.

    There's nothing wrong with either, the right geometry is the one that works for the rider. If someone buys a stock gravel frame and has fun riding it, it's silly to say that person wasted his/her money. If someone makes a funky geometry gravel bike and has fun riding it, that's awesome too.
     

  13. #33
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    Default Re: Another geometry thread - gravel

    "gravel bike" means a lot of things to a lot of different people.

    I like the term all-road better, and that's what I'd consider mine to be. It's a road bike with some balls, but it's not pretending to be a MTB. Bigger tires means it can go anywhere, but the gearing/geometry/fit/drop bars all mean it's best suited for roads, paved or dirt, and it's not as capable on trails as a proper MTB.

    That green thing posted above, to me, that's a drop bar MTB. All that said, to each his or her own. You do you baby.







    Last edited by dgaddis; 10-22-2018 at 07:58 AM.
    Dustin Gaddis
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    Why do people feel the need to list all of their bikes in their signature?

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    Default Re: Another geometry thread - gravel

    There aren't even that many MTBs with such a radical geometry.



    I'd definitely like to do a test ride.
     

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    Default Re: Another geometry thread - gravel

    Quote Originally Posted by Marin View Post
    There aren't even that many MTBs with such a radical geometry.



    I'd definitely like to do a test ride.
    Pretty similar to a Canfield Nimble or Kona Honzo if you throw a rigid fork and dropbars on it seems to me. And yeah if you need a dropper post on your "allroad" bike then it seems like you've left the road and are on the trail in hardtail country.
     

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    Default Re: Another geometry thread - gravel

    We climbed -and descended 3000 ft in 4-5 miles on our "gravel" bikes Saturday.
    Basically carbon 29" HT MTB's that ride good on the road.
    Not close to needing a dropper post.
    The combination on the pictured bike seems weird. If it's so steep you need a dropper, you need way more tire than is on that bike.
    BTW; If you started riding in the 70's you appreciate the quality of all the bike stuff that's around these days. Just lightyears away.
     

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    Default Re: Another geometry thread - gravel

    The posts here show why development of this form of bike is being retarded. Very few seem to understand enpugh about bicycle design to see past paint. It's a shame that this mentality is what is being catered to.
     

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    Default Re: Another geometry thread - gravel

    Quote Originally Posted by pvd View Post
    The posts here show why development of this form of bike is being retarded. Very few seem to understand enpugh about bicycle design to see past paint. It's a shame that this mentality is what is being catered to.
    Well if your POV is that"...Pretty much everything on the market is a complete joke and it's probably not worth wasting money on." it sounds like you have the opportunity to become the next thing, big or otherwise.

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    Default Re: Another geometry thread - gravel

    idk why someone wouldn't just buy a mountain bike. But then we wouldn't be able to argue about geometry on the internet.
    steve cortez

    FNG

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    Default Re: Another geometry thread - gravel

    Quote Originally Posted by pvd View Post
    The posts here show why development of this form of bike is being retarded. Very few seem to understand enpugh about bicycle design to see past paint. It's a shame that this mentality is what is being catered to.
    Insulting is no way to get a point across.
    Last edited by Justin@BlackOakVelo; 10-22-2018 at 08:26 PM.

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