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Thread: 4 years to get fit

  1. #61
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    Default Re: 4 years to get fit

    Thanks, I've been doing the core routine most days, I can forearm plank with no effort for a minute, so not totally weak in that regard.

    I've got a decently aggressive setup on my bike and considering how little I've ridden it should be no surprise I get fatigued and pain from it. The answer of course is to just keep riding. The pain doesn't feel like damage, just being worn out.

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    Default Re: 4 years to get fit

    The position on the bike thing is interesting to me. This is how my bike used to be setup
    4178067749_6ac2d09766_o.jpg
    I'm flexible in general now than I used to be, my lower back strength is way better and my understanding of how to sit on a bike has improved too. The only real issue I used to have back then was pain at the front of the saddle from rolling my hips forward and I was always trying to roll them back to prevent that and because people had told me I was supposed to be on my sit bones (I now know this to be not what I understood).

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    Default Re: 4 years to get fit

    Quote Originally Posted by AntLockyer View Post
    I get fatigued and pain from it. The answer of course is to just keep riding. The pain doesn't feel like damage, just being worn out.

    The other part of the answer is to to keep resting. Recovery for the back is probably as important as the legs. For me riding through the pain has always just added up. I never really broke through without letting up for a while.

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    Default Re: 4 years to get fit

    Absolutely, I just meant if I ride my bike for a year, I should be way more able to ride my bike. You make a good point though, those easy days on the legs and lungs aren't perhaps easy on the rest of the systems involved.

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    Default Re: 4 years to get fit

    My experience with lower back pain is that it won't go away just by riding more. It needs to be addressed separately, whether that is a proper bike-fitting, strengthening the core, combination of both, or something else.

    In terms of saddles, it was a revelation to me in terms of ride comfort. When I switched from Fizik Antares VS to Arione VS, it was a noticeable improvement. However, I knew that my pelvis wasn't rolling forward enough even with a -2 tilt, leading to my lower back arching, which in turn caused other issues. When I got Selle SMP, it did exactly what it said on the tin: it helped to roll my pelvis forward, enabling me to have a completely straight back and to comfortably spend much longer time in the drops. It was eye-opening.

    I used to get numbness even with the VS versions of Fizik. With SMP, no more numbness. Furthermore, I have used unpadded models of SMP, and of the 4 Paris Roubaix sportives I did, the most comfortable edition for my backside (and back) was on a bare carbon SMP.
    Edit: The higher level of comfort is not attributable exclusively to the saddle since the whole bike was purpose-built for a parcours like P-R, but the lack of bum soreness is, I should think, due in no small part to the saddle choice.
    Chikashi Miyamoto

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    Default Re: 4 years to get fit

    Luckily I no longer get lower back pain, that issue was solved years ago when Too Tall forced me to do core work. The pain I was feeling was upper back/shoulders/neck, and I'm pretty sure was just me holding my body up while riding slowly. Today's ride while a little shorter felt significantly better, for a number of reasons both bike and riding style related.

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    Default Re: 4 years to get fit

    Sorry, I misunderstood the relevant part of your back...

    I get a sore neck when I go for a pootle after not having been on a bike for a couple of weeks. The ride after that is fine. It's just a matter of my neck getting back into lifting my large head, I suppose.

    As for the shoulders and upper back, it sounds like there is undue strain coming from somewhere. Could it be that too much of your weight is being supported by your hands/arms? Have you tried the pedal-reasonably-hard-for-20-minutes-and-put-your-hands-behind-your-back-and-see-if-you-can-support-your-upper-body test?
    Chikashi Miyamoto

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    Default Re: 4 years to get fit

    I'm in a whole world of working out where things should be. I've actually gone to less setback for a bit, it makes the pedaling so much smoother, when I pedal hard I move forward even further so having the saddle further back from there doesn't make much sense to me. I can sit back if I want to sit up a bit on the tops. I take an Allen key with me, today I tilted the saddle maybe 1 degree and just rode it, feeling different styles/positions. There is one feeling of relaxing into my stomach muscles, when I do it there is no real visible movement but it feels like a restful position, no weight on bars or saddle. The feeling doesn't last long though for some reason. I think being open to this stuff, listening to my body and just throwing out all the stuff I thought to be true (like me needing a 12cm setback or 82cm seat height). We shall see where we end up.

    Right now I feel way better in general than I did 4 weeks ago.

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    Default Re: 4 years to get fit

    Quote Originally Posted by AntLockyer View Post
    ...no weight on bars or saddle....
    I'm often aware of hand/arm/shoulder weight on the bars, is it too much, not enough? Is no weight, as in next to nothing, a possibility for most? Is there some basic parameter for bar and saddle weight, is it dependent on individual anatomy? As long as my body(especially back and shoulders) isn't sore after a ride I feel like I'm pretty dialed in, still fiddle with minor adjustments though. Rest is very important for me(74yo), I ride 2-2 1/2 hours every other day, sometimes I'll ride two days in a row but that's unusual, if I don't go easier the second day I feel it.
    Take care of yourself in this time of crisis and realize sadness, anger and grief are part of the process Brian Clare

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    Default Re: 4 years to get fit

    I don't know the answers to those questions, but you only have to look at the pros when they are cruising along to see they are probably bearing weight on their locked out arms. I think the position just isn't remotely as important as I've thought it to be in the past and I'm sure that the more I ride the less important it will become.

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    Default Re: 4 years to get fit

    On the feeling of having a smoother pedal stroke when seated forward, it may simply mean that the leg muscles are not in balance, that is, the front bits are much stronger than the rear bits including the bums. That was my experience. In other words, the body can tell you something without disclosing why.

    It's natural that under increased effort, the body wants to move forward, but if there is a muscular imbalance in favour of the front bits, I should think that it might lead to a more pronounced tendency to move forward.

    But yeah, it's all a three dimensional puzzle that requires a bit of experimentation.
    Chikashi Miyamoto

  12. #72
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    Default Re: 4 years to get fit

    I have this theory that applies to systems. You can make the same adjustment and get opposite results depending on what your starting point is.

    Silly not quite right car racing example, "adding camber increases grip" which is true if you didn't have enough to start with but not true if you had too much to start with.

    I think the same extends to these discussion on the bike.

    Regarding the setback thing, it may be that my posterior chain and glutes are weak compared to my quads, I'd put money on that being the case. However I don't think that moving the saddle forward (to the extent I'm talking about) will put a great emphasis on the quads, in fact it feels balanced, and the glutes are definitely working. If anything it feels like the quads are working less hard, the whole thing feels joined up rather than mashing pistons. This is not caused by me trying to pedal circles, just pedalling and letting my body do what it needs for me to go along. With the saddle back I feel like I want a low cadence, pedalling is easier and faster with it forward. I'm only talking 3cm or so.

    The place I'm at right now though is I don't think any of it really needs a lot of thought. Certain things feel better and I'll listen to those feelings over time. What is clear to me though is my aims. I want to ride fast and be as fast as I can be for the amount of time I will give to bike riding. So adopting the positions used for fast riding (i.e. aero and bent forward for glute engagement) is the order of the day.

  13. #73
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    Default Re: 4 years to get fit

    After a new (second hand) saddle and some more riding today with an Allen key, I have gone further back and a little lower. Its definitely more comfortable but definitely feels less 'spinable'. Going to just leave it like this for a few weeks.

    Ticked off my first goal for the year. My main aim is to be able to do a 4 hour 100km, did 26km in an hour today. Slight issue that half of that was above threshold heart rate. More zone 2 needed.

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    Default Re: 4 years to get fit

    I did 2 hours at the top of zone 2 yesterday, my legs were cooked in the evening and today I didn't feel like riding. I think I'm on the edge of over doing it. Took today off, will take tomorrow off. Been tracking it all in Training peaks and it's been telling me to rest for ages but I figured that was just because I didn't have 42 days of exercise in there.

    Screenshot 2021-01-03 200349.png

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    Default Re: 4 years to get fit

    End if December was a bit of a blowout in terms of food and drink. Made amends this week.
    Screenshot_20210109-095540_Fitbit.jpg
    Discovered that at my current level of fitness 27-30 TSS a day is enough to maintain fitness while reducing fatigue numbers. This is very useful to know when I'm time restricted or need to recover. 30 mins at zone 2 is possible in most circumstances.

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    Default Re: 4 years to get fit

    Here is how my last four MONTHS went.

    My first day back in the shop is today !!!
    - Garro.

    thumbnail-9.jpeg122106060_836547790487713_8703277333734596529_n.jpg136948633_199559688542168_1171075447432129908_n.jpg
    Steve Garro, Coconino Cycles.
    Frames & Bicycles built to measure and Custom wheels
    Hecho en Flagstaff, Arizona desde 2003
    www.coconinocycles.com
    www.coconinocycles.blogspot.com

  18. #78
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    Default Re: 4 years to get fit

    Glad to see you back at it. You weirdly pop into my head most days when I'm on the bike.

    unnamed (2).jpg

  19. #79
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    Default Re: 4 years to get fit

    Quote Originally Posted by AntLockyer View Post
    Glad to see you back at it. You weirdly pop into my head most days when I'm on the bike.

    unnamed (2).jpg
    It's my ancestor's bar !!!

    I forgot you lived by it

    - Garro.
    Steve Garro, Coconino Cycles.
    Frames & Bicycles built to measure and Custom wheels
    Hecho en Flagstaff, Arizona desde 2003
    www.coconinocycles.com
    www.coconinocycles.blogspot.com

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    Default Re: 4 years to get fit

    Doesn't quite apply at the moment, but one way to 'find' more time is to ride back and forth to work.

    Does a few things: you get there in a better mood. You're more productive thru the day. ...and that second ride in the PM revs your metabolism back up for anther 8hrs

    I'd also suggest doing something weight bearing along with the riding. Us olde phartes need it to keep bones strong

    M

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