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Thread: 2.5yr old ready for pedals

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    Default 2.5yr old ready for pedals

    Our 2.5 yr old is proficient on a balance bike. He is able to pick up speed and balance with his feet up. He is able to turn and handle small bumps. He moves with confidence. To be fair the boy is getting a little bored on the balance bike and is showing interest in a pedal bike. He's tried a SE Racing Bronco and the seat height is absolutely too high even with it slammed all the way down. For a first pedal bike, I'm looking at the Cleary Gecko, Gecko 12" Single Speed | clearybikes.com. It has a low stand-over height and seems like a quality rig. Anyone with thoughts on Cleary or other brands to consider? Woom looks good but it will take a while to grow into the 14.

    Thanks in advance for your feedback.
     

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    Default Re: 2.5yr old ready for pedals

    Both my kids have used a BYK 250 as their first pedal bike. They're both fairly small and the standover is pretty darn low. No idea if these are available in the US though...

    I think you're going to have to go into shops and try the bikes. Standover varies quite a bit from brand to brand.

    I follow Bike Shop Girl on instagram, they're somewhere in Colorado and have a good range of kid's bikes, they might be able to advise on the best bike for a little-un.
     

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    Default Re: 2.5yr old ready for pedals

    cleary bikes are very good. the model you probably want is the gecko. we have own 4 of them. they donate to our school and are all around good people.

    Gecko 12" Single Speed | clearybikes.com

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    Default Re: 2.5yr old ready for pedals

    Look at spawn too, their 14" is pretty tiny. I am picking up a used spawn 16" for my tall almost 3yo, it is an older one with a traditional post so I might have to buy the pivotal style post the new ones come with from them so he can put his feet on the ground.
     

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    Default Re: 2.5yr old ready for pedals

    +1 on the Gecko. According to my son, the blue version is extra fast!

    DaveS
     

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    Default Re: 2.5yr old ready for pedals

    My kid started pedalling at just a little over 3 on a Spawn Furi and it was perfect size wise for him. He was a small kid as well.
     

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    Default Re: 2.5yr old ready for pedals

    You all are lucky. My kid is totally disinterested in bikes...other than loving my bunny bike (Zukas).
     

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    Default Re: 2.5yr old ready for pedals

    Thanks for the feedback. I ordered the Gecko. We have not told him yet.

    Per the interest, he's always had a little but things picked up when I started riding with him. I always wear a helmet and take a bike out with him. Its very important that we're doing the same thing together. I introduced the Strider bike at about 18 months. He would walk around for 5 mins and then run inside. Its been a long road of microscopic improvements. First it was walking a little faster. Then scaring himself by accidentally sitting down. Then using the seat on purpose but still walking. Then tiny bits of gliding. Then he started gliding a foot or two on purpose. If you asked me to break down all the milestones along the way when we got started, I would guessed 5 instead of the 100 or 1000 its actually been.
     

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    Default Re: 2.5yr old ready for pedals

    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew Strongin View Post
    You all are lucky. My kid is totally disinterested in bikes...other than loving my bunny bike (Zukas).
    That’s the beauty of balance bikes to me. There’s not really anything to look after and they don’t weigh a tonne.

    You can just leave one lying around and eventually (even if you don’t do or say anything) “faster than walking” seems to kick in. For us anyway....
     

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    Default Re: 2.5yr old ready for pedals

    Quote Originally Posted by Colinmclelland View Post
    That’s the beauty of balance bikes to me. There’s not really anything to look after and they don’t weigh a tonne.

    You can just leave one lying around and eventually (even if you don’t do or say anything) “faster than walking” seems to kick in. For us anyway....
    Yeah, we have a couple balance bikes. Every once in a while he'll get on one and wheel it around. Most of the time he'd rather pretend to be a dinosaur. Though, if I'm remembering correctly, I didn't start riding a bike until later than my friends. I'll be bookmarking this thread for when the day comes that he's ready.
     

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    Default Re: 2.5yr old ready for pedals

     

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    Default Re: 2.5yr old ready for pedals

    I've taught a few hundred kids to ride on BYK balance and pedal bikes, they aren't perfect but they do have properly small options: E-25 – ByK Bikes - The Best Kids Bikes

    It also has a neat point of attachment for a guide bar that you can use to help them when they are first getting started - it is a lot better than holding on to the child or the handlebars and means you don't have to do your back/knees bending down further. Though generally when they are very confident on a balance bike this handle is only really needed to the initial transition when they are getting the hang of getting their feet in to position to start and getting enough initial power to get moving.

    On this point, the back pedal brake on the BYK is annoying for teaching kids to set their pedals to start. But they do tend to use it better than the hand operated brakes, so it is a pro and a con.

    Check out Isla too, was impressed by their range for kids when I visited their store in Portland: Islabikes Cnoc - starter bikes for toddlers and young children

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    Default Re: 2.5yr old ready for pedals

    Quote Originally Posted by ABiCi View Post
    ...Though generally when they are very confident on a balance bike this handle is only really needed to the initial transition when they are getting the hang of getting their feet in to position to start and getting enough initial power to get moving.
    For my daughter, this transition was all of 10 minutes, after letting her use the pedal bike without the cranks/BB for a couple days (and after a couple years with the balance bike). I helped her up and down the driveway a few times, then she was all on her own.

    I wish these things were around when I was a kid...
    DT

    http://www.mjolnircycles.com/

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    Default Re: 2.5yr old ready for pedals

    Quote Originally Posted by David Tollefson View Post
    For my daughter, this transition was all of 10 minutes, after letting her use the pedal bike without the cranks/BB for a couple days (and after a couple years with the balance bike). I helped her up and down the driveway a few times, then she was all on her own.

    I wish these things were around when I was a kid...
    Yeah, it definitely beats the old way of doing it. Much fewer grazed knees and tears shed.

    For most kids that transition is quick like you say, with a solid balance foundation just 10 or 15 minutes of introduction to pedals and generally they don't need adult assistance any more.

    I used to run free clinics for kids each weekend back in Sydney, so many parents would show up and say they had been trying unsuccessfully to get their kids riding for months or even years, within an hour the kids were riding independently looking like they had always been able to do it. They thought I was some sort of wizard, but it was just the method that worked.

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    Default Re: 2.5yr old ready for pedals

    Quote Originally Posted by ABiCi View Post
    bastardizing quotes ... I've taught a few hundred kids to ride ... They thought I was some sort of wizard, but it was just the method that worked.
    This got my attention :). As someone looking to help a child make the transition from a balance bike to a pedal bike, anything you are open to sharing on the method is welcome. As stated in the initial post, the boy is able to balance, steer, and handle a little bit of speed on a 12" Strider balance bike. There is interest in riding a pedal bike. The initial effort on a SE Racing Bronco was a bust. Even with the seat all the way down, he could barely reach the pedals let alone the ground. also the reach was wrong. basically the fit was off. the plan is to start fresh with a smaller bike. the method i've been following is to master the balance bike, transition to using the pedal bike a bit like the balance bike, and then encourage using the pedals. any other ideas or more details are welcome.
     

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    Default Re: 2.5yr old ready for pedals

    Quote Originally Posted by gt6267a View Post
    This got my attention :). As someone looking to help a child make the transition from a balance bike to a pedal bike, anything you are open to sharing on the method is welcome. As stated in the initial post, the boy is able to balance, steer, and handle a little bit of speed on a 12" Strider balance bike. There is interest in riding a pedal bike. The initial effort on a SE Racing Bronco was a bust. Even with the seat all the way down, he could barely reach the pedals let alone the ground. also the reach was wrong. basically the fit was off. the plan is to start fresh with a smaller bike. the method i've been following is to master the balance bike, transition to using the pedal bike a bit like the balance bike, and then encourage using the pedals. any other ideas or more details are welcome.
    Your method is the right one, it just requires the right bike to work properly.

    The key to making the transition is to make the feeling of the pedal bike as close to the feeling of the balance bike as possible. Ideally you have exactly the same fit from one to the other, so that kids can still reach the ground comfortable with their feet flat while sitting in the saddle. If you make them reach further from the ground they tend to start to worry about that reach and it creates a distraction which can be hard to overcome. The other issue with sizing up to the pedal bike is weight - for smaller kids this can make a big difference in their confidence. Going off the models you mentioned, a 12" Strider is 2.9kg, a SE Racing Bronco is 8.4kg in the 12" version - that is a pretty big jump and it can be disconcerting or difficult for kids to maneuver the bigger bike, particularly at the youngest ages. If the kids are worried about holding the bike up that is again introducing distractions that you really need to avoid.

    I liked the BYK brand for this reason. I was lucky enough to have a fleet to work with that included every size in their range in both balance and pedal versions, so once a kid had proven their skills on the balance bike we could make the transition to exactly the same bike but with pedals (in some of the larger sizes where there weren't balance bike versions we were just removing and attaching pedals as needed). The weight differential was also closer. The equivalent balance and pedal bikes to the size your kid would be on weighed respectively 4.75kg and 6.5kg, so while the balance bike was a little heavier the pedal version didn't weight so much more. I see you got the Gecko, I hadn't seen them before but they look really nice. I'd get the pedals off on it for a bit and let him use is as a balance bike for a bit before putting the pedals back on.

    My benchmarks for deciding if a kid was ready to head over to pedals was that they could consistently push off and glide in a straight line for about 10 or 15m without their feet touching the ground before performing a U turn, also with no feet touching the ground, so that they ended up facing back to where they had come. We had a court space that was designed to have a very slight slope in one direction - barely noticeable if you are walking, but enough of a drop off to allow for a bit of momentum to build for the kids on balance bikes. The key to getting the straight line and turn is that "the bike goes where you look", so if you find they are struggling to keep the glide going in a straight line position yourself so they are heading straight at you and make sure they are looking at you the whole way down. To get them to make the U Turn they then need to have a second target to look for - you could move yourself so they need to follow you around the bend or have a second person or object that they need to shift their attention towards. The more they look down at their hands or the front wheel the more wobbly and erratic they are, if they just look where they want to go things smooth out a lot very quickly.

    I was pretty conservative about progression, but it pays to have them super confident on the balance bike before you add the pedals because if there are any lingering doubts about balance they only get magnified when you throw in another thing for them to think about. As I said earlier the transition to pedals can be really quick, but only if their balancing is at a point where they aren't consciously having to think about it anymore.

    To start off with pedals you really do want that seat as low as possible, so that at least one foot, ideally both, can be comfortably flat on the ground when stationary. When teaching kids to start off I had four key things that they needed to do to get moving:

    1. Before they start they need to know how to stop the bike, whether there is a back pedal brake or hand operated levers. Ask questions like how many brakes does this bike have? How many do you think we should use when we want to stop? The answer for this one is all of them. How do they work (ie. do you squeeze with your hands, do you pedals backwards)? Can you show me how you do that? What do we use brakes for? There are three functions - to slow down, to stop, to stay still. If there are hand brakes I'd encourage them to use the hand brake when they are getting themselves in to the right position to start and to only let go when they decide to push off.

    2. Pedals in the right position to start - the "power position" where one pedal is up higher and they can push down on it and get some speed.

    3. Feet in the right position - one foot high on the "power position" pedal, the other foot is out wide on the ground - it makes a "big triangle" (one side up their leg, one side down the bike, one side along the ground) - to give them stability

    4. Eyes looking where they want to go, not down at the pedals or the handlebars. For this you can use the same techniques with the balance bike - have them start off aiming at you and make sure they are making eye contact with you.

    I get the kids to show me how to get set up in the right position a few times, watching that they are using the brakes, that they understand which pedal is in the power position, which foot needs to be on the pedal and which on the ground. Once I'm satisfied with that, then it is time to put it into practice.

    For the kids riding a bike is like flying a plane - once they are up and going things are fine, but the difficulties are in getting off the ground safely and then getting back down. :)

    The first few starts probably will need a little help in providing stability as they work out how to get both feet on to the pedals and start going. The BYK handlebars are nice for this, if you don't have those then my preferred place to hold on to the bike was the axle nuts of the rear wheel. I found that that allowed me to keep things straight enough while minimising the kid's sensation that I was in some way controlling things. This is also partially a response to child protection issues - I'm not going to hold a child directly or grab a saddle underneath them if I don't have to. If I was having to hold on for any more than a few seconds then I'd call a stop and a reset and we would get into the correct position to start again. With the handlebar, I'd only ever use it when necessary, so rather than constantly holding on to it I would have my hand hovering by it at all times ready to give it a small nudge from side to side if needed.

    Some kids needed support on starts for a little while. Some picked it up straight away and after the first couple of starts they could do it totally unassisted. Either way, if you drum in the "power position", the "big triangle" and the eyes ahead it shouldn't take too long for them to be doing it.

    Ideally you have a paved space about as big as a basketball court at a minimum for this. Once they first start I try not to be too prescriptive about exactly what path I want them to follow - generally a big circle around is good place to begin and see how many laps they can do before they need to stop, for some kids beating their PB on that can be a good motivation to keep trying. Often times the kids will need a reminder that they need to keep on pedaling to keep on going. One game I would play was that they would be to set up a chase - generally chasing down a parent. For them to catch the person in front they need to keep looking towards them, you can't catch someone if you can't see them, and your legs need to be spinning around faster than the persons legs are running. Have the person being chased try to keep the distance between them and the kid pretty small, around 2 or 3 metres, and have them follow a path that doesn't require any sharp turns, so a big circle is best.

    I'll add in some controlled stops in the first few laps, giving them a clear 3-2-1 count down before they come to a stop. Encourage them to use all of the brakes that they have, to keep their bottom on the seat and their feet on the pedals (another good thing about back pedal brakes is that they require this) and to only put a foot on the ground once the bike has come to a complete stop. After they have done this well a few times I'd add in some controlling of the speed, maybe they ride faster up one side of the court and then on the way back they have to use their brakes and try to go as slow as they can. When they are able to keep their balance at the slower speeds you start to add in some more precise steering. I used coloured disc cones to create narrow pinch points for them to ride through or to slalom around. These flat cones are good because the kids can just ride straight over them if they don't get their steering quite right. The key here is again to encourage them not to look at the things that they don't want to hit, the cones, but to look towards the spaces in between where they want to go.

    The last thing I'll say is that I think it was easier for me to teach a lot of these kids than it was for their parents because of the differences in our relationship to the child. For some kids the most productive thing I did in assisting them to ride was to take their parents aside for a chat with the ulterior motive of just getting them to leave their kid alone so they could just have a bit of a play and learn at their own pace without feeling too much pressure. Some kids do take longer than others to get the hang of it, but getting impatient or frustrated about it or trying to set expectations too far beyond the current abilities of the child will only make this process take even longer. It should be fun. Plenty of times there were kids at the clinics who I knew would be a very fast transition to pedals but when I asked them if they wanted to try pedals they would say no, they were happy on their balance bike. In some situations I'd suggest they might have a bit more fun on the pedal bike (you can go faster, you can stay up longer...) or would tell them that they were showing me they were awesome on the balance bike and I was really confident they were going to find the pedal bike easy, but if there was no initial bite on that I'd just let them be. Part of my philosophy about teaching is that the role of the the teacher is to empower students and to ensure that they have agency in their learning process, and I don't see why that should be any different for children. On that point, other times parents would be overly protective, feeling like they needed to hold on a lot longer than was necessary, not trusting their child to avoid an obstacle, worrying that every lean in to a turn was the start of a fall. Part of the beauty of the method is that it allows the child themselves to build their skills progressively in safe way. On the balance bike their feet can be firmly on the ground at all times. They only get transitioned across to pedals once they have conclusively demonstrated their abilities on the balance bike. On the pedal bike they can still reach the ground with both feet, they know how to stop the bike. That's not to say that accidents can't happen, but following this method for hundreds of hours with hundreds, possibly thousands, of kids, I have never had to provide any more first aid then a band-aid.

    So, the up shot of all that is trust your kid and trust the method. Set up clear parameters for progression and when they hit them give them the choice to move on. If they don't want to, don't force it. Be patient. Keep sessions short so you don't tax their mental or physical energy too much. Keep things simple and fun, make games out of everything.

    I left my job in Sydney (running a cycling education business, primarily focused at promoting adult transport cycling but also covering children and adults first learning to ride, skills courses for kids and adults and basic bike mechanics courses) last year to move to Berlin permanently after chasing summer between Australia and Europe for a few years. It was the right call for me, it was time for me to be somewhere else and do something else, but I'm not sure I'll ever do anything that provides the same level of job satisfaction again as teaching kids to ride for the first time.

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    Default Re: 2.5yr old ready for pedals

    Thanks for putting time and effort into such a detailed response. I'll share this with my wife and ensure we are both informed when he transitions from the Strider bike.

    Lots of good tips above. One that sticks out big time ... trust the child. In very much a "how you do one thing is how you do everything" way, trusting your child is an incredible life lesson.

    Thanks again, Keith
     

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    Default Re: 2.5yr old ready for pedals



    Update:

    Over the last 10 months, our son has improved on the balance bike. He was legit leaning into turns, speeding downhill, and showing nice age appropriate bike handling skills. While he met the criteria Abici put out there for readiness to pedal, he completely rejected them. There was no convincing the boy that pedals are cool. Watching me use them didn’t matter. Watching the neighbor 6-yearold use them didn’t matter. He simply wanted nothing to do with pedals. The pedal bike got limited action as a balance bike. A few months ago, the Cleary Gecko started coming into rotation more because it has hand brakes and hand brakes are cool.

    Sunday, we were out biking in a school parking lot. We had the place to ourselves. The boy got distracted and started talking about plants. We picked some leaves off a bush, talked about the waxy surface, and where the green comes from. I flipped the bike upside down to rest. He noticed and we started talking about the chain and how pedals move the rear tire via the chain. Next thing I know, we’re back on the bikes and he wants the pedals.

    He gets the bike going and lifts his feet onto the pedals. Clearly the skill of pedaling isn’t there. He’s trying but not succeeding much. I’m providing a lot of encouragement. Yesterday, we tried again. He started off like with the balance bike, picked up his feet, and started playing with the pedals. The overnight effect was clear to see. He got it quickly and was zooming up and down the street. “Daddy, can I pedal and turn at the same time?”

    He’s 3.5 and we have legit pedaling action.
     

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    Default Re: 2.5yr old ready for pedals

    Quote Originally Posted by gt6267a View Post
    He’s 3.5 and we have legit pedaling action.
    Dude, he's 3.5 and he's checking over his shoulder for the counter. Awesome
     

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    Default Re: 2.5yr old ready for pedals

    Quote Originally Posted by gt6267a View Post


    Update:

    Over the last 10 months, our son has improved on the balance bike. He was legit leaning into turns, speeding downhill, and showing nice age appropriate bike handling skills. While he met the criteria Abici put out there for readiness to pedal, he completely rejected them. There was no convincing the boy that pedals are cool. Watching me use them didn’t matter. Watching the neighbor 6-yearold use them didn’t matter. He simply wanted nothing to do with pedals. The pedal bike got limited action as a balance bike. A few months ago, the Cleary Gecko started coming into rotation more because it has hand brakes and hand brakes are cool.

    Sunday, we were out biking in a school parking lot. We had the place to ourselves. The boy got distracted and started talking about plants. We picked some leaves off a bush, talked about the waxy surface, and where the green comes from. I flipped the bike upside down to rest. He noticed and we started talking about the chain and how pedals move the rear tire via the chain. Next thing I know, we’re back on the bikes and he wants the pedals.

    He gets the bike going and lifts his feet onto the pedals. Clearly the skill of pedaling isn’t there. He’s trying but not succeeding much. I’m providing a lot of encouragement. Yesterday, we tried again. He started off like with the balance bike, picked up his feet, and started playing with the pedals. The overnight effect was clear to see. He got it quickly and was zooming up and down the street. “Daddy, can I pedal and turn at the same time?”

    He’s 3.5 and we have legit pedaling action.
    Awesome! Thanks for posting the follow up, watching that was definitely the highlight of my day.

    It looks and sounds like you did a great job helping him develop his skills and build his confidence up, and perhaps most importantly you were patient enough to give him the time, space and freedom to decide for himself when to make the progression to pedals. Both you and he should be really proud of the achievement.

    From this point on it is just all about practice, getting that pedaling action in to the muscle memory so his attention can be focused on what is going on around him rather than on what his feet are doing. Play games that involve needing to start, accelerate, slow down and stop (particular emphasis on stopping), and then move on to developing more accurate/intentional steering, dealing with narrower spaces and sharing space with other people. The hardest part is now done, so just keep the same principles going (progressive development, patience, positivity) and you will find that his riding smooths out very quickly.

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