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Thread: Scout

  1. #41
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    Cool Re: Scout

    Love, love, love, love this ongoing descriptive thread. So interesting!
    Bravo to you and your family for capturing the details along the way.
     

  2. #42
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    Default Re: Scout

    We did manage to squeeze some Scout work in around the holidaze! First we had to put a ceiling in one bay of the garage so we could tarp if off from the rest and keep some heat in there with our little electric heater. Once we got that done we got to work. First we put the tub back on the chassis. Then we started in on the wiring. The first order of business was to mount the dash so we could see what sort of room we had to work with. We don't really need to mount things were they were originally. We also have the Megasquirt (MS) computer to mount - we need access to one end of that for computer connection. Finally, I'd like to mount the fuse panel where I can see it - us older folks with bifocals find it almost impossible to see anything under the dash. We decided to give up the glove box for all of the electronics.

    IMG_2810.JPG.jpg

    We are not going to use stock gauges, so we also have to figure out what to do with the old holes and where to put the new holes.

    So after some studying and drawing out the MS inputs/outputs and the sensor connector pinouts we had a good idea of what needed to be hooked to what. We weeded out the MS harness - our application is pretty simple. The MS can support 8 separate injectors and 8 separate coils and has outputs for launch control and nitrous and other things we don't need. We only have 3 spark outputs and 6 injector outputs. Anyway, we ran the wires to their approximate locations and got to hooking sensors up:
    IMG_2813.JPG.jpgIMG_2814.JPG.jpg
    On the inside it's still spaghetti:
    IMG_2816.JPG.jpg
    At the end of the day we had our harness pretty much done. We harvested the connectors off the harness that came with the engine and for some reason the crank position sensor and the throttle position sensor connectors were gone. So we still have those to hook up.
    IMG_2818.JPG.jpg
    I think going this MS route is good for Finn - and me too. Installation requires you to know where each sensor is and what it does. Further along we will have to identify and calibrate each of the sensors via the Tuner Studio software. Then we will have to tune the engine via the software (luckily we have a base fuel/spark/air map to start with). Once we get this thing up and running we will have a very detailed understanding of how a modern engine works. Even at this installation stage Finn's depth of knowledge is *far* beyond mine at his age - hell my understanding of how a modern engine works today is far beyond what it was 6 months ago. All good stuff!

    In other news we scored a bunch of nice buckets from a buddy of mine: 2 GTI seats and 2 Audi TT seats. The GTI seats will go into the Scout - they will get covered with a neoprene seat cover. And the Audi seats will go into the '58 once we get there. A buddy was just looking to clear them out of his garage and we helped him right out.

    IMG_2811.JPG.jpg

    Next up is more wiring: finish the engine harness and mount the computer and such. Then run the chassis harness and hook up the ignition circuits from that. Then we will be marching towards getting the engine started. This is a different part of the build, and the change from fabrication is nice. We still have some fabrication to do: the front fenders and grill needs work as well as the doors. And there is plenty of sanding in our future. But for now we are enjoying the detailed and clean wiring work.

    Happy new year! Bob & Finn
    Bob Spooner
    Departing from
    East Hampton, CT

  3. #43
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    Default Re: Scout

    Why the Megasquirt instead of the stock Jeep engine management & fuel injection? Are there non-jeep elements like the transmission that would screw up the engine management?
     

  4. #44
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    Default Re: Scout

    Lumpy, I think mostly for educational purposes - much of this build is educational in nature. When we bought the jeep engine it did not come with the computer. We could have purchased a computer and just did the plug and play But we will learn much more going this route. There is also the fact that this engine swapping into a 1974 is now exempt from all of the pollution control systems built into the original ecu. If we kept he stock ecu we would have had to keep all of the pollution controls and also mimicked a bunch of inputs like airbag deployment and such that would have been a pain - at best.

    It really is overkill for this- there are a lot of unused inputs and outputs. But it gives us some practice on a relatively easy installation - we have a more complicated version planned for that 58 pickup back there a bit.

    As we are using a manual trans there is no issue with that. Bob
    Bob Spooner
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    East Hampton, CT

  5. #45
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    Default Re: Scout

    The pause to put a ceiling in one of the bays of the garage so we could partition it off and keep the heat in was time well spent. Comfortable working in there now.

    A whole lot of studying and wiring this past week. We are installing the MS and it's harness as well as a chassis harness. The aim is to get the MS harness completed and get the starting/charging circuits of the chassis harness completed so we can see if this engine will start. We have to sort out the crossover between the harnesses: the premade harness we bought is aimed more at "normal" classic cars. There are leads for the coil and alternator and tach signal, etc. However, we will be supply tach signal from the MS, fan and alternator control from the MS, etc. The "coil" wire on the chassis harness goes to a switched 12V landing to supply the injectors, coils, O2 sensor, alternator, etc. Anyway, if has been good fun figuring it all out, and we are back to subject matter where I can actually teach the boy something, rather than just watch him go. So that is good.

    A shot of the spaghetti:

    IMG_2822.JPG.jpg

    Along with this, we had to decide where to put everything: we have the MS box, the chassis harness fuse box, the switched 12V fuse block, the MS relay board and the wide band O2 sensor. I wanted it pretty high so that I can read it - us bi-focal wearing old farts find it virtually impossible to see anything under the dash. Also, the MS box needs easy access to plug the computer in. So we decided to give up our glove box and stuff everything in there. Worked out pretty well:

    IMG_2825.JPG.jpg

    So the upcoming near term stuff is all detail/wiring and computer stuff - not so exciting for pics, but really very interesting to work on. Thanks for looking - B&F
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Bob Spooner
    Departing from
    East Hampton, CT

  6. #46
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    Default Re: Scout

    Quote Originally Posted by MDEnvEngr View Post
    Blast from the past. I think the last time I saw fuses like that was on my dad's 79 F350.
     

  7. #47
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    Default Re: Scout

    The wiring continued. We finished off all of the starting and charging wiring. The gauge panel will come once we have the gauges here. And obviously the lights will be done later. We finished up the ECU wiring. We then hooked up the battery and put power to the ECU. the rest of the weekend looked like this:
    IMG_2834.JPG.jpg
    The computer plugged into the ECU and the ECU manual next to the computer. We got the computer talking to the ECU and then stepped through the process of verifying the sensor wiring - and were really happy to see that we wired everything correctly so far. Then sensor calibrations - which caused trips to the NAPA for new Throttle position, cam position and crank position sensors. But after replacing those, everything looked good. We tested injectors and the coils. Then we cranked the engine over (no fuel and no power to injectors at this point) to take a look at CPA and CKPS signals. Things look good to us - but we are in uncharted territory here. But the signal shows a signal of series of 4 spikes on the crank (which corresponds to the notches on the flywheel) and 1 cam signal per 6 crank signals. This seems to jive: the cam signal is TDC compression on #1 and the 6 crank signals represent 2 revolutions which would put us back at TDC compression on #1 . But - we are not getting an RPM signal. It's almost if the ECU needs to be told that 3 sets of crank spikes = 1 revolution and we haven't found out how to do that.

    But overall a good weekend. We were hoping for engine start, but we are close! Good day - Bob
    Bob Spooner
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    East Hampton, CT

  8. #48
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    Default Re: Scout

    We got that figured out: the Cam and Crank PS were missing a "pull up" resistor:

    IMG_2841.JPG.jpg

    Yup, one of these tiny things in each of those sensor circuits got us straightened out. Took some research - but that is part of the fun with this project.

    So, we finished off the wiring, verified all of the sensor calibrations and hooked up the fuel line. We put some fuel in the tank and tested the fuel pump, All looks good. We had already turned it over without power to injectors or the coil to verify CPS and CKPS (described above).

    We went through the Tuner Studio setup and made sure we had the most basic tune: fixed timing, no warm up enrichment, no APR trim, etc, We put all of the fuses back and then we were out of excuses - it was time to see if it actually ran. We turned the key and after a few seconds the thing fired up! We had to had-operate the throttle to keep it from stalling at first, but then it settled into a nice 800 RPM idle. We only ran it for a couple of minutes: we don't have a radiator installed.

    Although it was running nice for a while it ended up stumbling and quitting. We looked at our log files and saw that we lost RPM signal again. So we looked at those resistors again and sure enough: one of them had failed. We replaced that and she fired right up. Sweet. Some happy dancing might have taken place in the garage.

    Then we wrestled with the transfer case. We are installing a NV3550 five speed with a dana 300 transfer case. The trans and transfer case are not the same year and we needed to modify the transfer case to mate up with the trans. Then we needed to clock it so it would fit in our tunnel. Now we will have to get creative with the pivots for the shifters that work the transfer case. It's just normal for this project: every single thing needs to be re-worked in some way. But it is good fun!

    There might be a glimmer of light ahead - but I know that the last "few" things to wrap up can take a long time!

    And in Ford F100 news, Finn found an IRS assembly from a 2016 mustang GT that fit in his budget, so we took a trip to MA to take a look and pick it up. We can't work on the F100 until the Scout is done - but that doesn't mean we cannot pick up parts for it. This was a good deal. It also came with an IFS assembly from a crown vic but we probably won't use that. But they were a package. this was the prize:

    IMG_2845.JPG.jpg

    Anyway - good things. Bob&Finn
    Bob Spooner
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    East Hampton, CT

  9. #49
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    Default Re: Scout

    Still plugging along. We finally got our transfer case and shifters "straightened" out. We had to chop up the pivot mount and the sticks themselves to get everything to fit. We had to disassemble/re-assemble a dozen times - like building a ship in a bottle. But it works good:

    IMG_2857.JPG.jpgIMG_2858.JPG.jpg

    We finished up the under dash wiring - pretty much. We wired all of the gauge panel leads to 2 6X plugs. We got the heater duct fitted - which required "clearancing" the duct to fit our computer - we really wanted everything in the old glove box area, so we thought it was a good tradeoff. Boy wonder had to design and 3-d print a piece to fill the hole in the duct:

    IMG_2870.JPG.jpgIMG_2871.JPG.jpg

    Then we have been working on the dash and gauge panel. Because we are using different gauges, we had to chop up the dash pretty good. We still have some more work to go with that, but we will finished it up with some nylon flocking - just like the WRC guys. We laid out our gauge panel:

    IMG_2854.JPG.jpg

    After cutting the holes and "brushing" the finish with the flap wheel we decided to clear PC the panel. WE really like the brushed look, but we thought that if left raw it would collect grime. Looks good though:

    IMG_2886.JPG.jpgIMG_2888.JPG.jpg

    And here is the panel with the gauges installed and most of the lights. A few more push-button switches go in there and the key will go in the hole to the right of the speedo:

    IMG_2891.JPG.jpg

    Our Scout did not come with a set of keys so we took apart the column and removed the lock cylinder. Then we put it on the lathe and removed the "hump". We filled the remaining hole with aluminum and completed the key removal:

    IMG_2865.JPG.jpg

    Meanwhile at the front we have finished the inner fenders and put those on.

    IMG_2874.JPG.jpg

    Lots of little stuff happening: the hydraulic clutch master installation, the air box, the battery box and the battery wiring, cleaning and painting up the core supports and on and on. Good stuff, we are trying to have it drivable in June and ready for the annual Martha's Vineyard trip in July. We will see - balancing it so that the project pace remains enjoyable vs getting it done ASAP is the trick.

    Thanks for looking - good day - Bob & Finn
    Bob Spooner
    Departing from
    East Hampton, CT

  10. #50
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    Default Re: Scout

    We've been working on the doors - The bottoms and the corners were toast:

    IMG_2907.JPG.jpg

    We just replaced the bottom 4" of outer skin, and the whole bottom. There was some finicky fabrication on the corners, but Finny was up to it. I don't have any pics, but welding the seam all the way across takes a couple of hours. It's tacks every few inches, but planishing the tacks, then grinding the tacks then repeat until the whole butt joint is complete. The idea is to reduce distortion of the panel as much as possible. Even so, there is finish work to be done. First the sander then the hand files:

    IMG_2918.JPG.jpg

    Then we stripped the rest of the paint off the door skin, in prep for our finishing. You never know what you are going to find. Here we see the passenger side door, with evidence that the handle was pushed in at some point. You can see the creases and the holes from the puller. The weird part is that this repair was under the original paint and primer. So, did it happen at factory or maybe someone stripped door and repainted with original color. Weird:

    IMG_2924.JPG.jpg

    Then on to stripping the fenders. We picked up a couple of spare fenders last summer when we scored a nice windshield frame. The fender lips on these spares are better than our originals. So we are going to do a transplant. Aside from the lips, our fenders in better overall shape. We will also replace the rockers on these fenders:

    IMG_2923.JPG.jpgIMG_2925.JPG.jpg

    While Finn was doing that, I was in the warm and clean side of the garage. I ran the brake lines and installed the booster, MC and PV. Installed the steering gear and inner fender:

    IMG_2927.JPG.jpg

    We fitted up our cold air intake. We need to weld a couple of bungs on the tube for valve cover scavenge and Finn need to design and print a support. We just bent up some stainless sheet for the box that houses the filter. Looks pretty good.

    IMG_2928.JPG.jpg

    Next up is fender repairs, and then the nerve-wracking door fitment. We last had them on the tub when we were positioning the tub rockers. Hoping they fit ok and the gaps are good.

    Will we make the Vineyard in July? Hmmm. Good day - B&F
    Bob Spooner
    Departing from
    East Hampton, CT

  11. #51
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    Default Re: Scout

    Still impressed ...
    Dan Fuller, local bicycle enthusiast

  12. #52
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    Default Re: Scout

    Finn and I have been self quarantined in the garage for some time, so we are good and healthy - except for the burns and cuts. With all of us working remotely some extra time has opened up for project work, so we have a good push going on. We are finishing up the major metal work and all sorts of odds and ends: wiring, radiator mounting and plumbing, etc.

    The front fender work amounts to turning 2 poor fenders into one better-than-poor fender and then some freestyle sheetmetal and patch panels to make a good fender on each side. You already saw the roached fender and our collection:

    Fender arch cut and tacked:

    IMG_2936.JPG.jpg

    Other side, but a shot of the rocker repair:

    IMG_2930.JPG.jpg

    Same routine with the front grill: take 2 lousy grills and make one better-than-lousy grill. After piecing them together we will still have to address some pocks though:

    IMG_2939.JPG.jpg

    And because you can never get enough shots of Finn making sparks:

    IMG_2940.JPG.jpg

    Next up, the hood. We have just pulled it apart - and it is in rough shape. This is our last real piece of serious metal work and it's a doozy. There is rot across the nose and lip of the hood skin. The inner structure is very rough. We need to replace the hinge landings and the curved part in the front I'll call the inner nose. We have the pieces bent up, but have yet to start the actual work. We will have to stretch the outside edge of our angle to match the curve of the hood. This is what we have now:

    IMG_2948.JPG.jpgIMG_2949.JPG.jpgIMG_2950.JPG.jpg

    Then, we finally got new wheels on it. They came raw, so I brought them into work one by one and sandblasted them during lunch. Of course the style we wanted needed some modification: we had to enlarge the hub bore and then put a hole in the front hubcaps for the hub lockers to poke through:

    IMG_2937.JPG.jpg

    And because the backspace wasn't what we really needed, we had to go with spacers. In the end this worked out, because it'll put the wheels out to the edge of the flares. And it makes the hub locker flush with the hubcap. Hubcaps chrome here, but they will be body color - which we think is going to be a campstove green. We are very happy with the way these came out, a very different look from the fancy alloy rims the kids seem to love these days:

    IMG_2954.JPG.jpgIMG_2955.JPG.jpg

    31" tires - so we are not going for the poser mudder look. This will see the beach on the Vineyard, but not much else in 4X4.

    Anyhow, that's where we are at now. Stay well everyone...B&F
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    Bob Spooner
    Departing from
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    Default Re: Scout

    Brilliant work my man. Keep posting we love this.

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    Default Re: Scout

    Bob,
    You are the type of father I wish I had. But thatís a whole different thread.

    Mike
    Mike Noble

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    Default Re: Scout

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Tall View Post
    Brilliant work my man. Keep posting we love this.
    Understatement. Best thread in years. It's got gear head stuff, father-son bonding stuff, and eye-candy stuff. Thanks for keeping it going, Bob.
    "I guess you're some weird relic of an obsolete age." - davids

  16. #56
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    Default Re: Scout

    Thanks guys. I am having a great time with this project. Savoring the time with the boy. It has impacted ride time and brought framebuilding to a standstill, but there will be plenty of lonely old man time for that. I'm right where I need to be right now. After the scout we will begin working on a 58 ford f100 which will actually be finns first car. That will be a different kind of project: not so much body work, but we will build the chassis from scratch, and lots more suspension work and such. You guys seem to like this stuff so I'll post that up when it comes. Hopefully this summer. Stay well! Bob
    Bob Spooner
    Departing from
    East Hampton, CT

  17. #57
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    Default Re: Scout

    All that is well and good but we are all ignoring the dreamboat quigley-ford van in the background of these pics.
     

  18. #58
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    Default Re: Scout

    Quote Originally Posted by zambenini View Post
    All that is well and good but we are all ignoring the dreamboat quigley-ford van in the background of these pics.
    Ha! I'd say "good eye" but that thing is hard to miss. It's a beast and we love it - so long as gas is reasonable. 12 mpg! But it also gets 12 mpg when pulling the camper. We can fit 8 people and 8 bikes and gear in there out of the weather no problem. And it just steams through snow and slush and crappy roads no problem. And it does have a "presence" on the road. Good day - Bob
    Bob Spooner
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    East Hampton, CT

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    Default Re: Scout

    Quote Originally Posted by MDEnvEngr View Post
    Thanks guys. I am having a great time with this project. Savoring the time with the boy. It has impacted ride time and brought framebuilding to a standstill, but there will be plenty of lonely old man time for that. I'm right where I need to be right now. After the scout we will begin working on a 58 ford f100 which will actually be finns first car. That will be a different kind of project: not so much body work, but we will build the chassis from scratch, and lots more suspension work and such. You guys seem to like this stuff so I'll post that up when it comes. Hopefully this summer. Stay well! Bob
    I am jealous of the lack of body work on the Ford. A local lady has an early 70s Ford and my wife must be getting tired of my comments about how that truck is parked outside, like mine, but the paint is not bubbling at the bottoms of the doors because Ford treated their metal inside and out.

    Thanks again for posting your story. And a huge thank you for using steelies and caps! To each their own but I tend to be disappointed when I follow a rebuild of a truck like mine and it ends with 22 inch wheels and rubber band tires.
     

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    Default Re: Scout

    Hi Bob, I just wanted to chime in and let you know I'm enjoying the progress you share on your Scout immensely. Keep it up!
     

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