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Thread: Scout

  1. #41
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    Cool Re: Scout

    Love, love, love, love this ongoing descriptive thread. So interesting!
    Bravo to you and your family for capturing the details along the way.
     

  2. #42
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    Default Re: Scout

    We did manage to squeeze some Scout work in around the holidaze! First we had to put a ceiling in one bay of the garage so we could tarp if off from the rest and keep some heat in there with our little electric heater. Once we got that done we got to work. First we put the tub back on the chassis. Then we started in on the wiring. The first order of business was to mount the dash so we could see what sort of room we had to work with. We don't really need to mount things were they were originally. We also have the Megasquirt (MS) computer to mount - we need access to one end of that for computer connection. Finally, I'd like to mount the fuse panel where I can see it - us older folks with bifocals find it almost impossible to see anything under the dash. We decided to give up the glove box for all of the electronics.

    IMG_2810.JPG.jpg

    We are not going to use stock gauges, so we also have to figure out what to do with the old holes and where to put the new holes.

    So after some studying and drawing out the MS inputs/outputs and the sensor connector pinouts we had a good idea of what needed to be hooked to what. We weeded out the MS harness - our application is pretty simple. The MS can support 8 separate injectors and 8 separate coils and has outputs for launch control and nitrous and other things we don't need. We only have 3 spark outputs and 6 injector outputs. Anyway, we ran the wires to their approximate locations and got to hooking sensors up:
    IMG_2813.JPG.jpgIMG_2814.JPG.jpg
    On the inside it's still spaghetti:
    IMG_2816.JPG.jpg
    At the end of the day we had our harness pretty much done. We harvested the connectors off the harness that came with the engine and for some reason the crank position sensor and the throttle position sensor connectors were gone. So we still have those to hook up.
    IMG_2818.JPG.jpg
    I think going this MS route is good for Finn - and me too. Installation requires you to know where each sensor is and what it does. Further along we will have to identify and calibrate each of the sensors via the Tuner Studio software. Then we will have to tune the engine via the software (luckily we have a base fuel/spark/air map to start with). Once we get this thing up and running we will have a very detailed understanding of how a modern engine works. Even at this installation stage Finn's depth of knowledge is *far* beyond mine at his age - hell my understanding of how a modern engine works today is far beyond what it was 6 months ago. All good stuff!

    In other news we scored a bunch of nice buckets from a buddy of mine: 2 GTI seats and 2 Audi TT seats. The GTI seats will go into the Scout - they will get covered with a neoprene seat cover. And the Audi seats will go into the '58 once we get there. A buddy was just looking to clear them out of his garage and we helped him right out.

    IMG_2811.JPG.jpg

    Next up is more wiring: finish the engine harness and mount the computer and such. Then run the chassis harness and hook up the ignition circuits from that. Then we will be marching towards getting the engine started. This is a different part of the build, and the change from fabrication is nice. We still have some fabrication to do: the front fenders and grill needs work as well as the doors. And there is plenty of sanding in our future. But for now we are enjoying the detailed and clean wiring work.

    Happy new year! Bob & Finn
    Bob Spooner
    Departing from
    East Hampton, CT

  3. #43
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    Default Re: Scout

    Why the Megasquirt instead of the stock Jeep engine management & fuel injection? Are there non-jeep elements like the transmission that would screw up the engine management?
     

  4. #44
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    Default Re: Scout

    Lumpy, I think mostly for educational purposes - much of this build is educational in nature. When we bought the jeep engine it did not come with the computer. We could have purchased a computer and just did the plug and play But we will learn much more going this route. There is also the fact that this engine swapping into a 1974 is now exempt from all of the pollution control systems built into the original ecu. If we kept he stock ecu we would have had to keep all of the pollution controls and also mimicked a bunch of inputs like airbag deployment and such that would have been a pain - at best.

    It really is overkill for this- there are a lot of unused inputs and outputs. But it gives us some practice on a relatively easy installation - we have a more complicated version planned for that 58 pickup back there a bit.

    As we are using a manual trans there is no issue with that. Bob
    Bob Spooner
    Departing from
    East Hampton, CT

  5. #45
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    Default Re: Scout

    The pause to put a ceiling in one of the bays of the garage so we could partition it off and keep the heat in was time well spent. Comfortable working in there now.

    A whole lot of studying and wiring this past week. We are installing the MS and it's harness as well as a chassis harness. The aim is to get the MS harness completed and get the starting/charging circuits of the chassis harness completed so we can see if this engine will start. We have to sort out the crossover between the harnesses: the premade harness we bought is aimed more at "normal" classic cars. There are leads for the coil and alternator and tach signal, etc. However, we will be supply tach signal from the MS, fan and alternator control from the MS, etc. The "coil" wire on the chassis harness goes to a switched 12V landing to supply the injectors, coils, O2 sensor, alternator, etc. Anyway, if has been good fun figuring it all out, and we are back to subject matter where I can actually teach the boy something, rather than just watch him go. So that is good.

    A shot of the spaghetti:

    IMG_2822.JPG.jpg

    Along with this, we had to decide where to put everything: we have the MS box, the chassis harness fuse box, the switched 12V fuse block, the MS relay board and the wide band O2 sensor. I wanted it pretty high so that I can read it - us bi-focal wearing old farts find it virtually impossible to see anything under the dash. Also, the MS box needs easy access to plug the computer in. So we decided to give up our glove box and stuff everything in there. Worked out pretty well:

    IMG_2825.JPG.jpg

    So the upcoming near term stuff is all detail/wiring and computer stuff - not so exciting for pics, but really very interesting to work on. Thanks for looking - B&F
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Bob Spooner
    Departing from
    East Hampton, CT

  6. #46
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    Default Re: Scout

    Quote Originally Posted by MDEnvEngr View Post
    Blast from the past. I think the last time I saw fuses like that was on my dad's 79 F350.
     

  7. #47
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    Default Re: Scout

    The wiring continued. We finished off all of the starting and charging wiring. The gauge panel will come once we have the gauges here. And obviously the lights will be done later. We finished up the ECU wiring. We then hooked up the battery and put power to the ECU. the rest of the weekend looked like this:
    IMG_2834.JPG.jpg
    The computer plugged into the ECU and the ECU manual next to the computer. We got the computer talking to the ECU and then stepped through the process of verifying the sensor wiring - and were really happy to see that we wired everything correctly so far. Then sensor calibrations - which caused trips to the NAPA for new Throttle position, cam position and crank position sensors. But after replacing those, everything looked good. We tested injectors and the coils. Then we cranked the engine over (no fuel and no power to injectors at this point) to take a look at CPA and CKPS signals. Things look good to us - but we are in uncharted territory here. But the signal shows a signal of series of 4 spikes on the crank (which corresponds to the notches on the flywheel) and 1 cam signal per 6 crank signals. This seems to jive: the cam signal is TDC compression on #1 and the 6 crank signals represent 2 revolutions which would put us back at TDC compression on #1 . But - we are not getting an RPM signal. It's almost if the ECU needs to be told that 3 sets of crank spikes = 1 revolution and we haven't found out how to do that.

    But overall a good weekend. We were hoping for engine start, but we are close! Good day - Bob
    Bob Spooner
    Departing from
    East Hampton, CT

  8. #48
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    Default Re: Scout

    We got that figured out: the Cam and Crank PS were missing a "pull up" resistor:

    IMG_2841.JPG.jpg

    Yup, one of these tiny things in each of those sensor circuits got us straightened out. Took some research - but that is part of the fun with this project.

    So, we finished off the wiring, verified all of the sensor calibrations and hooked up the fuel line. We put some fuel in the tank and tested the fuel pump, All looks good. We had already turned it over without power to injectors or the coil to verify CPS and CKPS (described above).

    We went through the Tuner Studio setup and made sure we had the most basic tune: fixed timing, no warm up enrichment, no APR trim, etc, We put all of the fuses back and then we were out of excuses - it was time to see if it actually ran. We turned the key and after a few seconds the thing fired up! We had to had-operate the throttle to keep it from stalling at first, but then it settled into a nice 800 RPM idle. We only ran it for a couple of minutes: we don't have a radiator installed.

    Although it was running nice for a while it ended up stumbling and quitting. We looked at our log files and saw that we lost RPM signal again. So we looked at those resistors again and sure enough: one of them had failed. We replaced that and she fired right up. Sweet. Some happy dancing might have taken place in the garage.

    Then we wrestled with the transfer case. We are installing a NV3550 five speed with a dana 300 transfer case. The trans and transfer case are not the same year and we needed to modify the transfer case to mate up with the trans. Then we needed to clock it so it would fit in our tunnel. Now we will have to get creative with the pivots for the shifters that work the transfer case. It's just normal for this project: every single thing needs to be re-worked in some way. But it is good fun!

    There might be a glimmer of light ahead - but I know that the last "few" things to wrap up can take a long time!

    And in Ford F100 news, Finn found an IRS assembly from a 2016 mustang GT that fit in his budget, so we took a trip to MA to take a look and pick it up. We can't work on the F100 until the Scout is done - but that doesn't mean we cannot pick up parts for it. This was a good deal. It also came with an IFS assembly from a crown vic but we probably won't use that. But they were a package. this was the prize:

    IMG_2845.JPG.jpg

    Anyway - good things. Bob&Finn
    Bob Spooner
    Departing from
    East Hampton, CT

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