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Thread: Surly

  1. #81
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    Default Re: Surly

    The Casseroll with long-reach calipers is a solid ride for an inexpensive all-rounder. The last production run was with cantis. Look at the SomaFab and All-City offerings as well.
     

  2. #82
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    Default Re: Surly

    Quote Originally Posted by s_curran View Post
    Also, I just stumbled across a 51cm Casseroll thoughts on those?
    Those are pretty great, especially the caliper-brake ones. A lot better than a Cross-Check, especially for what you want it for.


    The Cross-Check really can't decide what it wants to be: it's overly stiff for perambulatory use with heavy-gauge OS tubing, the head tube is really short for racing, some people like the high BB for actual cross racing but it descends like ass on the road and makes a novice fit even harder, the horizontal dropouts for singlespeed use make the other 95% miserable, etc. etc.

    Sizing on the smaller ones is also a disaster, the 50cm & 52cm are identical except for STA jackassery. The 42 & 46 are also identical but they're abominations that simply shouldn't exist at all with those wheels.

    The Pacer is a lot better on all those points, but it's still super stiff, and derp in the smallest few sizes (not that most bikes aren't).


    Surly in general has a major problem with overbuilding their bikes, and to make it worse they never lighten things up on the smaller sizes, everyone gets the same tubing.

    LHTs are almost unrideable by smaller people, they simply don't weigh enough to get any response from the thickwall UOS tubes.
     

  3. #83
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    Default Re: Surly

    Quote Originally Posted by blasdelf View Post
    Those are pretty great, especially the caliper-brake ones. A lot better than a Cross-Check, especially for what you want it for.


    The Cross-Check really can't decide what it wants to be: it's overly stiff for perambulatory use with heavy-gauge OS tubing, the head tube is really short for racing, some people like the high BB for actual cross racing but it descends like ass on the road and makes a novice fit even harder, the horizontal dropouts for singlespeed use make the other 95% miserable, etc. etc.

    Sizing on the smaller ones is also a disaster, the 50cm & 52cm are identical except for STA jackassery. The 42 & 46 are also identical but they're abominations that simply shouldn't exist at all with those wheels.

    The Pacer is a lot better on all those points, but it's still super stiff, and derp in the smallest few sizes (not that most bikes aren't).


    Surly in general has a major problem with overbuilding their bikes, and to make it worse they never lighten things up on the smaller sizes, everyone gets the same tubing.

    LHTs are almost unrideable by smaller people, they simply don't weigh enough to get any response from the thickwall UOS tubes.
    Yeah, I was worrying about that, considering she is only 130 lbs. So it looks like im on the hunt for a pacer or casseroll, thanks for all the help guys. It seems like the casseroll has been designed around a short seat tube? she would feel more comfortable with more standover height, so this could be good. It appears the 51 should be equivalent to a standard 54 or something.
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    Default Re: Surly

    I had a friend over 200lb find his Pacer dead and unresponsive, cause he wasn't using it at anything approaching race pace.

    The Casseroll should be good, it's one of the older ones with long reach calipers? That 51 is terrific: Salsa Cycles | Bikes | Casseroll

    The smaller ones are not better unless you're really desperate for standover. Notice how while they shrink the reported ETT on the smaller sizes, the reach doesn't actually get shorter, they're just fucking with the angles, because the wheels belong in certain places.
     

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    Default Re: Surly

    Quote Originally Posted by blasdelf View Post
    I had a friend over 200lb find his Pacer dead and unresponsive, cause he wasn't using it at anything approaching race pace.

    The Casseroll should be good, it's one of the older ones with long reach calipers? That 51 is terrific: Salsa Cycles | Bikes | Casseroll

    The smaller ones are not better unless you're really desperate for standover. Notice how while they shrink the reported ETT on the smaller sizes, the reach doesn't actually get shorter, they're just fucking with the angles, because the wheels belong in certain places.
    Yeah long reach calipers, which will be good for her not using a road brakes before as well. I think a 54 TT with a slightly shorter stem would be good for her. I ran her measurements through the CC bike fit machine to check as well. Why did they stop making these? I'd really love to pick one up, but I've only seen one out there. Maybe I should move this discussion over to the salsa thread now...
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  6. #86
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    Default Re: Surly

    See also
    ES | SOMA Fabrications.

    Very similar to the Casseroll and available for purchase.
     

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    Default Re: Surly

    Quote Originally Posted by s_curran View Post
    Yeah, I was worrying about that, considering she is only 130 lbs. So it looks like im on the hunt for a pacer or casseroll, thanks for all the help guys. It seems like the casseroll has been designed around a short seat tube? she would feel more comfortable with more standover height, so this could be good. It appears the 51 should be equivalent to a standard 54 or something.
    Casserolls in both incarnations, (canti and caliper) also have horizontal dropouts, IIRC. Seems hard to find the early caliper Cass's..some of them broke..Salsa had probs with them and I think the production runs were kind of small. Your GF may in fact find a Surly a bit tankish, but no more then anyone else up and down the size range. My feeling is that blasdelf, (a smart guy for sure) has too high a set of expectations for the CC. The headtube is too short. It's a heavy-ish bike although I've ridden high-quality rando bikes, etc that weigh as much as my CC, (not to say they are the same beast..the CC is no Mariposa, etc...) and in contrast to blasdelf I find that the CC descends like a motherf*cker as long as you hold your line. It climbs like a bag of shit, tho. But then again..so do I. I've got many miles on my lowly CC and it works fine for what it is. if you have a problem with the weight of a Surly, then avoid All-City. I also think A.C. uses a PF30 BB setup(?) which if true across the product line seems odd and pointless to me on a cheap steel bike.
     

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    Default Re: Surly

    Quote Originally Posted by chancerider View Post
    Casserolls in both incarnations, (canti and caliper) also have horizontal dropouts, IIRC. Seems hard to find the early caliper Cass's..some of them broke..Salsa had probs with them and I think the production runs were kind of small. Your GF may in fact find a Surly a bit tankish, but no more then anyone else up and down the size range. My feeling is that blasdelf, (a smart guy for sure) has too high a set of expectations for the CC. The headtube is too short. It's a heavy-ish bike although I've ridden high-quality rando bikes, etc that weigh as much as my CC, (not to say they are the same beast..the CC is no Mariposa, etc...) and in contrast to blasdelf I find that the CC descends like a motherf*cker as long as you hold your line. It climbs like a bag of shit, tho. But then again..so do I. I've got many miles on my lowly CC and it works fine for what it is.
    Thanks, I wont count the CC out, otherwise I might just spend the entire summer searching for a frame for her. A mediocre bike is always better than no bike. I do really like that soma though. I will eventually replace my commuter with a CC, as it does exactly what I need.
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  9. #89
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    Default Re: Surly

    Quote Originally Posted by chancerider View Post
    Casserolls in both incarnations, (canti and caliper) also have horizontal dropouts, IIRC. Seems hard to find the early caliper Cass's..some of them broke..Salsa had probs with them and I think the production runs were kind of small. Your GF may in fact find a Surly a bit tankish, but no more then anyone else up and down the size range. My feeling is that blasdelf, (a smart guy for sure) has too high a set of expectations for the CC. The headtube is too short. It's a heavy-ish bike although I've ridden high-quality rando bikes, etc that weigh as much as my CC, (not to say they are the same beast..the CC is no Mariposa, etc...) and in contrast to blasdelf I find that the CC descends like a motherf*cker as long as you hold your line. It climbs like a bag of shit, tho. But then again..so do I. I've got many miles on my lowly CC and it works fine for what it is. if you have a problem with the weight of a Surly, then avoid All-City. I also think A.C. uses a PF30 BB setup(?) which if true across the product line seems odd and pointless to me on a cheap steel bike.

    Mr Pink and the Nature Boy Zona are the only A.C with PF30. In comparison I find the finish and frame features on A.C to be a small step above Surly, but again they are very similar bikes. If the CC (and thus canti as semi-horizontal dropouts) is still in the running the A.C Spacehorse is another option.
     

  10. #90
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    Default Re: Surly

    Quote Originally Posted by s_curran View Post
    Thanks, I wont count the CC out, otherwise I might just spend the entire summer searching for a frame for her. A mediocre bike is always better than no bike. I do really like that soma though. I will eventually replace my commuter with a CC, as it does exactly what I need.
    FYI - I just took a long lunch over at Belmont Wheelworks, and they have the Pacer in all sizes, so maybe that helps with your "Pacers are hard to find" situation. As you'd expect, they also have Vayas n' shit to look at and compare.

    BTW, Sean, your Boston pics from your website are nice. Check out "Dirty Old Boston" on facebook. Nice pics that'll really take you back, if you've been here awhile.
     

  11. #91
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    Default Re: Surly

    Quote Originally Posted by chancerider View Post
    FYI - I just took a long lunch over at Belmont Wheelworks, and they have the Pacer in all sizes, so maybe that helps with your "Pacers are hard to find" situation. As you'd expect, they also have Vayas n' shit to look at and compare.

    BTW, Sean, your Boston pics from your website are nice. Check out "Dirty Old Boston" on facebook. Nice pics that'll really take you back, if you've been here awhile.
    I'll have to take a spin over there soon, I haven't been there in a while either.

    And thanks! Dirty Old Boston is great, I was doing a lot of research on the West End during my thesis, and was using a lot of photos from there, havent checked it out in a while, thanks. I haven't been here for long, only 7 years now, when I started college, but I have a slight obsession with historical photos and maps ( I have spent way too much time on the BPL's flickr as well: Flickr: Boston Public Library's Photostream ).
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    Default Re: Surly

    Blue Lug in Tokyo do great builds in general, but I really love how much detail they put into the Surly stuff. I worked with a mechanic once who covered his bench with glamor shots of "attainable" women and these are just as beautiful. The Blue Lug photostream on Flickr is addictive.







     

  13. #93
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    Default Re: Surly

    While out for my lunchtime ride on my gravel bike (my own design and built with Dave Levy at Ti Cycles), a guy asked me if it was a Surly. I'm not sure if I should be insulted or encouraged...
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  14. #94
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    Default Re: Surly

    Quote Originally Posted by David Tollefson View Post
    While out for my lunchtime ride on my gravel bike (my own design and built with Dave Levy at Ti Cycles), a guy asked me if it was a Surly. I'm not sure if I should be insulted or encouraged...
    Surlys are the definition of pedestrian, but plenty of folks do rather amazing things with them. Take it as a compliment, because life is too short to do otherwise. The bikes have nothing to explain to anyone and they do not require, nor do they make, any excuses for what they are. I feel towards my Surly like you'd feel towards a really ugly, foul-smelling, incontinent, but loving and worshipful old dog. I luv the SOB.
     

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    Default Re: Surly

    Did you know that the Surly Pacer I briefly owned 6 years ago while waiting for my Litespeed to arrive is Google's first returned image result for "surly pacer"?

    Go on, try it: https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=su...KonVkQW64oGwBA

    The QBP thread had me thinking about this bike.

    Pacer%u002520with%20Zipps.JPG

  16. #96
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    Default Re: Surly

    It's amazing the difference the parts make in the look of a bike. ^^^That looks nothing like the product photo on the surly site.

     

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    Default Re: Surly

    Quote Originally Posted by chancerider View Post
    Surlys are the definition of pedestrian, but plenty of folks do rather amazing things with them. Take it as a compliment, because life is too short to do otherwise. The bikes have nothing to explain to anyone and they do not require, nor do they make, any excuses for what they are. I feel towards my Surly like you'd feel towards a really ugly, foul-smelling, incontinent, but loving and worshipful old dog. I luv the SOB.
    speaking of surly's, you should free up some PM space.
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    Default Re: Surly

    Quote Originally Posted by Tristan View Post
    Did you know that the Surly Pacer I briefly owned 6 years ago while waiting for my Litespeed to arrive is Google's first returned image result for "surly pacer"?

    Go on, try it: https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=su...KonVkQW64oGwBA

    The QBP thread had me thinking about this bike.

    Pacer%u002520with%20Zipps.JPG
    That color looks good on the pacer.

    this build also comes up:

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    Default Re: Surly

    If there's an explanation for that ^ photo other than a buddy saying, "Hey, wouldn't it be funny if we took a picture of your Pacer set up with cyclocross gearing and my Boras," I'll bet I'd find it confusing.
     

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    Default Re: Surly

    Quote Originally Posted by caleb View Post
    If there's an explanation for that ^ photo other than a buddy saying, "Hey, wouldn't it be funny if we took a picture of your Pacer set up with cyclocross gearing and my Boras," I'll bet I'd find it confusing.
    one word: "Japan"

    (it's actually in Korea, but it doesn't really matter)
     

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