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Thread: Shop Dog Cycles - Road Build Chronical

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    Default Shop Dog Cycles - Road Build Chronical

    I'm building a road frame for my brother, and thought I would document the build here.

    First - Thank you to all of you who regularly post. The community on this forum is amazing!
    Second - I am open, and looking forward to, any commentary and/or questions about my process and workmanship. Don't hold back.
    Third - Just trying to give back myself. My resources are fairly raw... I have no jig, no true surface plate, a basic set of files, a hack saw and a torch. I hope my make do methods will help others also with limited resources.

    I'll post pics of my daily work, but don't be surprised if occasionally weeks go between postings.

    Let's start! To work with, a set of PegoRichie pipes and Rene Singer Lugs. A steel fork will be built to match.

    Beware of the Shop Dog! She licks!
    Beware of the Shop Dog.jpg

    The design.
    Richard Gordon.Road-1 Drawing.010315.jpg
    Richard Gordon.Road-1 Specs.010315.jpg

    Rolling the tubes between a set of homemade wooden v-blocks.
    Rolling the Tube.jpg

    A hand me down dial indicator helps me to find the high spots.
    Dial Indicator.jpg

    I mark a center line down the length of the tube on the high spot using a piece of aluminum angle as my guide. I was playing around with a few different markers to see which ones I liked best. Previously I have preferred the Sharpie Ultra Fine Point, but the Milwaukee Inzall was very nice. it is a lot like the typical Sharpie Fine Point, but the point seems much firmer, so we'll see if it holds up better over time. The typical Sharpie Fine Point is ok when new, but still a little on the fat side. The Komelon Fine Point I found at Farm & Fleet was not good at all for this application.
    Markers.jpg

    A nice new set of maple tubing blocks... all from a $2.75 remnant piece from the lumber yard.
    Tube Blocks.jpg

    Yes, I got it now Richard, the painted end of the seat tube goes into the bottom bracket. Regardless, checking the other end with the seat post won't hurt. Measure 5 times, cut once. Bicycle tubing is expensive!
    Seat Post.jpg

    Showing the tube who's boss. A few minutes with the hack saw and files. A mill would be nice for production work, but unless you have a dedicated machine for it I think it would take longer to set up than this took.
    Seat Tube Miter.jpg

    A little bling will do. These should braze up nicely!
    Water Bottle Bosses.jpg

    The prepped seat tube.
    Seat Tube.jpg

    The prepped head tube, and that will be enough for tonight.
    Head Tube.jpg
    Michael Gordon
    Shop Dog Cycles
    www.shopdogcycles.com
    Highland Park, IL

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    Default Re: Shop Dog Cycles - Road Build Chronical

    Day 2

    Ok, it is two weeks since I started this thread, but this is day 2 of the build process. I hate how life gets in the way!

    Here's the down tube
    Down Tube.jpg

    It's starting to take shape!
    ST DT HT 2.jpg

    Just a top tube to go, and it will be time to strike up the torch!
    Michael Gordon
    Shop Dog Cycles
    www.shopdogcycles.com
    Highland Park, IL

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    Default Re: Shop Dog Cycles - Road Build Chronical

    Day 3

    If you didn't learn something today, you probably weren't paying attention.

    Today I prepped the top tube. Miters on both ends, and then holes for an internally routed brake cable.

    I used the tube miter program on the Nova website to give me the shape of the ellipse for the brass brake tunnel tube.
    tunnel exit template.jpg

    After cutting the ellipse by drilling a couple of holes and connecting them with a couple of cuts the Dremel tool, I chucked up a round bastard file to open it up a little more.
    File Dril 1.jpg

    So here was my big learning experience of the day... If you try this, run the drill in REVERSE! I started with it in forward, and the file sucked right in. If I hadn't stopped quickly, I would have quickly widened the hole and the tip of the file might have dented the other side. I finished opening it up in reverse.
    File Drill 2.jpg

    I cleaned the whole up with a fine needle file, and you can see how nicely the brass tube exits through the hole.
    Hole.jpg
    tunnel exit.jpg

    I will be closing these off with those little exit plates.

    I am hoping to be brazing soon!
    Michael Gordon
    Shop Dog Cycles
    www.shopdogcycles.com
    Highland Park, IL

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    Default Re: Shop Dog Cycles - Road Build Chronical

    Wow can I be next?
     

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    Default Re: Shop Dog Cycles - Road Build Chronical

    Novice question, but what is the point in finding the high point of a tube?
     

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    Default Re: Shop Dog Cycles - Road Build Chronical

    It's usual to orient the tube's bowing in a plane centered to the frame so when checking alignment the bowing is not a factor. Simple example is that with a bowed tube it's center could be many thousandths off compared to the ends, so where along the tube do you call the base for your alignment to start from? With the tube rotationally placed so that the bowing is in plane with the frame the tube's sides will be much closer to straight/flat making the alignment check process that much easier. Andy.
    Andy Stewart
    10%

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    Default Re: Shop Dog Cycles - Road Build Chronical

    Good idea with the file, reminds me of a few times I've "milled" with drillbits in carbon fiber. . .
    Will Hilgenberg
    Santa Cruz, CA

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    Default Re: Shop Dog Cycles - Road Build Chronical

    Quote Originally Posted by whilgenberg View Post
    Good idea with the file, reminds me of a few times I've "milled" with drillbits in carbon fiber. . .
    Thanks! One challenge I am finding with this tonight... Although it makes a nice snug exit, the brass channel is delicate and kinks easily when bending. the more snug your entry and exit point, the more precise you have to be with how you contour the brass channel. I'm getting ready to order more, but this time from McMaster-Carr. I found the following thread in the archives very useful for this stage of the top tube. In particular, the step by step by Zank.

    http://www.velocipedesalon.com/forum...highlight=napa
    Michael Gordon
    Shop Dog Cycles
    www.shopdogcycles.com
    Highland Park, IL

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    Default Re: Shop Dog Cycles - Road Build Chronical

    Michael,

    If I may suggest...files are not designed to be used in a rotational/torsional fashion, such as in a drill. You can achieve the same outcome by a few in line strokes with the same file and not risk breaking the tool, your tube, or your wrist.

    Also, when bending thin tubing for internal cable routing, you can fill the tube with brass rod to support the inner diameter, limiting the probability of kinks and stressed areas, leading to longevity.

    Here's a quick video I put together years ago on how to create internal routing with a flush finish...



    rody
    Rody Walter
    Groovy Cycleworks...Custom frames with a dash of Funk!
    Website - www.groovycycleworks.com
    Blog - www.groovycycleworks.blogspot.com
    Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/pages/Groov...s/227115749408

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    Default Re: Shop Dog Cycles - Road Build Chronical

    I usually put a piece of housing into the brass tube when shaping it for the install.
    I've only forgotten to take it out once before brazing :)
    I knew sumpin was wrong when the black plastic fire came shooting out the end of the tube.....
     

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    Default Re: Shop Dog Cycles - Road Build Chronical

    Are you running full length cable through the frame? Is this the standard for internal in steel frames? Does anyone find the extra friction to be a drag? Anyone use internal cable stops?
    -Parker Musselman-
    Flickr

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    Default Re: Shop Dog Cycles - Road Build Chronical

    Thanks Rody & Jake!

    I'll try the brass rod or some housing. I've got plenty of scrap tube to play around with now!

    I picked up some more brass tubing from the hardware store this evening, which is a very economical place to pick it up.

    Parker - My take is that most of the steel frame builders are either running a tube for routing the housing through, but some just put on the entry and exit plates. My RON COOPER frame just has the entry and exit plates with not tube, and this can make running the housing through a pain. Whenever I have to replace the housing, I tape the new piece to the old piece and then pull the new one through as I pull the old one out.

    Bikes have used full length housings for the rear brake for years. Think of all the frames that just had the loops on the top tube that the cable was passed through. I'm not saying that we can't evolve and move to better things, but I have never felt an issue with too much drag due to a full length housing. I have both styles on two different bikes to compare side by side, and both have great action.
    Michael Gordon
    Shop Dog Cycles
    www.shopdogcycles.com
    Highland Park, IL

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    Default Re: Shop Dog Cycles - Road Build Chronical

    Days 4 & 5

    An hour at the dog park mellows the high energy pooch. If I had her energy level, I'd be a Cat 1!
    Kona.jpg

    Let's start making some sub-assemblies!
    Braze Ons.jpg

    Am I the only one who collects these little silver bits! It feels like I have to chuck them up in a roach clip to use every last bit I can.
    Silver Bits.jpg

    I picked up some new brass tubing from the hardware store. It was 9/32 w/ 0.14 wall thickness manufactured by K&S. This was noticeably more durable than the tubing sold by Nova, and did not kink when I bent it. It also came in longer lengths (3'), which made it easier to work with, and was about half the price. This is also available from McMaster-Carr.

    Exit Pre Braze.jpg
    Exit Post Braze.jpg
    Cable Exit.jpg

    Putting on the bling! The diamonds will go nicely with the Rene Singer lug set.

    Fluxed Bosses.jpg
    Boss Post Braze.jpg
    Finished Bosses.jpg
    Michael Gordon
    Shop Dog Cycles
    www.shopdogcycles.com
    Highland Park, IL

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    Default Re: Shop Dog Cycles - Road Build Chronical

    Impressive work!
    -Parker Musselman-
    Flickr

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    Default Re: Shop Dog Cycles - Road Build Chronical

    Day 6

    Just got back from NAHBS this evening, and had to get back into the shop to marry the seat tube with the bottom bracket shell. This is where my process will start to deviate from those with jigs. It's a longer process, but it's what I got!

    I start by clamping the bb shell between two pieces of steel angle iron that are also clamped at the end with a bock the same width as the bb shell. This keeps the steel angle parallel. In the case of the pictures below, these are actually post-braze, because I forgot to take some pictures pre-braze. Post-braze I put the assembly back in to check that it is still centered with a set of feeler gauges I cut on the table saw. High tech enough to work

    Centered 1.jpg
    Centered 2.jpg
    Centered 3.jpg

    After getting the seat tube square to the bb shell, I braze a tack while clamped in the angle. Next I check it again with the feelers. Then I put it in my park stand and do the full braze.

    Post Braze 1.jpg
    Post Braze 2.jpg
    Post Braze 3.jpg

    Flux soaked off...

    Flux Off 1.jpg
    Flux Off 2.jpg
    Flux Off 3.jpg

    A little emery cloth & scotch brite action, and this joint is looking good! From the inside of the shell, I could see silver flow through all around the bottom of the tube.

    Cleaned Up 1.jpg
    Cleaned Up 2.jpg
    Michael Gordon
    Shop Dog Cycles
    www.shopdogcycles.com
    Highland Park, IL

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    Default Re: Shop Dog Cycles - Road Build Chronical

    Day 7

    Here is my answer to not having a jig, or at least not your typical jig. I guess at the heart of it, it is still a jig.

    For just a couple of dollars, I picked up a check of 3/4" MDF board from the hardware store. From AutoCAD, I print out the angle at which I need to hold my tubes. In this case, I am starting with the head tube / down tube assembly. After cutting the MDF board at the proper angle, I cut a couple of grooves in the edges to keep the board centered on the tubes. Through a couple of holes, I hold it all together with some hose clamps.

    For a long time I was stalled on getting started in frame building, because I did not have a jig. With a jig outside of my budget, I spent countless hours trying to come up with an 80/20 type jig, only to find out that this too was more time & money than I really was ready to invest in. Finally, I saw the light a and put forth a plan to just buy a damn set of tubes and lugs. Thanks Richard! this was the post that told me to shit or get off the pot: Downsize The Fantasy | RICHARD SACHS CYCLES

    HT DT Jig.jpg

    Post Braze.jpg
    Michael Gordon
    Shop Dog Cycles
    www.shopdogcycles.com
    Highland Park, IL

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    Default Re: Shop Dog Cycles - Road Build Chronical

    This method of holding the tubes is a perfectly good one with one caveat. That is many tubes are not really straight but have a bit of a curve along their length. So if you were to roll the tube on a flat plate there would be a bowing, usually seen in the mid sections. Often this bowing will be aligned to the frame's center plane. This bowing can be enough to distort the seeming correct angle (to another tube) as measured over the tube's entire length instead of just the last few inches of the tube. The center point to center point dimensions can drift off the intended. This is why many jigs hold the tubes at their ends only and the clamping along the mid sections of the tubes is not where the measurements are being done at.

    I built a number of "hockey" stick process bikes (HT to DT and ST to TT in two subassemblies then joined together) and found some dimension drift usually was present. This is why full scale drawings and pins with tacks are still done by many who don't have "real" jigs.

    BTW your brazing looks very nice. Andy
    Andy Stewart
    10%

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    Default Re: Shop Dog Cycles - Road Build Chronical

    Thumbs up for creative function Michael.

    r
    Rody Walter
    Groovy Cycleworks...Custom frames with a dash of Funk!
    Website - www.groovycycleworks.com
    Blog - www.groovycycleworks.blogspot.com
    Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/pages/Groov...s/227115749408

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    Default Re: Shop Dog Cycles - Road Build Chronical

    more dog pictures
     

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    Default Re: Shop Dog Cycles - Road Build Chronical

    Quote Originally Posted by LoHiFab View Post
    more dog pictures
    No Problem... More dogs were just delivered just two days ago!
    Carly.jpg

    Not our litter, but Carly is our dog Kona's cousin. I'll get more pictures of Kona too.
    Michael Gordon
    Shop Dog Cycles
    www.shopdogcycles.com
    Highland Park, IL

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