User Tag List

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 29

Thread: Post: Custom rack ends/eyes design

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    43
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Post: Custom rack ends/eyes design

    Hey all-

    I've spent a little time over the past few weeks reviving a project I originally developed in 2010. I was building a bunch of custom racks at the time, and was really unhappy with the rack end options that were available to me at the time. Anyway, I documented my design and development process here. I'd be interested in anyone's design feedback, and I also included a form on the blog post for anyone who would be interested in buying these as an off-the-shelf item. I found them to be really elegant and super easy to use, and would love to be able to offer them to the community as well.

    Here's a photo of the finished parts:rack end-1.jpg

    And the finished assembly on a rack:rack end assembled-1.jpg

    thanks,
    Spencer Wright
    feed — spencer wright
     

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Posts
    895
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Post: Custom rack ends/eyes design

    Spencer- I think some would be interested in your rack end bits. I'd get some for sure if the cost was attractive. Andy.
    Andy Stewart
    10%

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Better to be ruined than to be silent atmo.
    Posts
    20,388
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Post: Custom rack ends/eyes design

    They look very nice.

    Please add prices and all terms on this thread.

    Thanks -

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    43
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Post: Custom rack ends/eyes design

    Thanks, guys. I'm still in the "do I want to do this?" phase, but I've been shopping around for job shops who could produce them at quantity. I'm not going to produce them unless there's interest in the parts, and I'd order quantities based on the level of interest, so obviously the cost would vary. Regardless, I'll be straightforward about my expenses and pricing models.

    More on that to come, but here are my current thoughts. First, Paragon's rack ends are steel and cost $8.95 per. They have a few advantages over me: first, their overhead is distributed across a wide range of products - some of which, I imagine, subsidize others. They also have their own tooling and equipment, and so the up-front costs of making a batch of parts are limited to material pricing (relatively low) and the opportunity cost of *not* producing something else. I, on the other hand, will likely be placing an order to a job shop and paying up front to do so. They'll give me a fixed price, but it'll likely be based on a cost-plus estimate, and will be marked up in inverse proportion to their expectation that I'll be bringing them more business in the future.

    On the other hand, I personally am not a big fan of the design of Paragon's rack ends (n.b. I like most of Paragon's stuff a *lot*, and Mark happens to be something of a family friend to boot. I in no way mean to denigrate his products, design expertise, or operation. Worth noting also that aside from being a somewhat observant person, I have zero insight into his pricing model, distribution system, or manufacturing process.). I find the design to be a bit baroque, and they're made from a larger piece of stock, and they're not stainless. So count that in my favor, I guess :)

    I would expect to be able to buy these parts for $3-6/pc (in quantities of 1000) if I buy in the US and about half that if I go to mainland China or Taiwan (but add in additional management time, shipping costs, lead time, etc). Obviously there are benefits and downsides to each route, and I'm more or less agnostic to them. In other words, if folks would prefer a more expensive US made part, I would do that. But if price is important and/or folks aren't interested in placing preorders (in which case I'll need to put up more of the up-front cost out of pocket) then I'll definitely consider going abroad. I've had good experiences buying similar parts from China in the past, and wouldn't expect this to be any different.

    Regardless, I'll need to charge some sort of markup to cover my own expenses - but like I say, I'll disclose all of that information if & when I get that far :)

    Thanks again for the feedback!

    S
     

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Cape Girardeau,Missouri
    Posts
    341
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Post: Custom rack ends/eyes design

    I'm bet I could use 20 pair, I've been looking for stainless rack ends.
    cheers
    andy walker
    andywalker.info
     

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Posts
    895
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Post: Custom rack ends/eyes design

    I'll add my thoughts in more detail. It looks like the rack ends are symmetrical side to side. So the slight counter bore for the mounting bolt is on both sides. Is this so? I'd want to have the side that touches the eyelet to be flat, not counter bored. Is the material SS? If so then the fit in the rack tubing will have to be tight enough for silver braze. So which tube ID will you design for? If the material is not SS then things get looser but still tube OD would be nice to match up.

    I have some of the water cut plate ends that a couple members of our community have produced (and sold) and find these work very well. Since the majority of the frames I'veve built use classic flat drop outs this plate rack end matches stylistically. But for plug in/over drop out frames having a rack end to match would also be nice.

    When i got the M5 binder bosses made (that I've sold before, and have a few still available) I was happy with the machine shop that i used. they were suggested by another builder and were everything i needed. They worked with my hand drawn plans, turned the batches around quickly and were spot on spec wise. The cost was reasonable. If the OP has a need for another possible source I'll share the name. Andy.
    Andy Stewart
    10%

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Cape Girardeau,Missouri
    Posts
    341
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Post: Custom rack ends/eyes design

    I've been making racks out of 3/8 316 stainless 0.028". I like the flat side of the paragons, but if yours don't have them I'll adjust.
    cheers
    andy walker
     

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    43
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Post: Custom rack ends/eyes design

    Andy(s)-

    I've always used .375" x .028" 304SS tubing. It's welded tubing, though, so the ID is a little inconsistent. My current design has a .311" OD on the relieved portion, which allows (in theory) for .008" clearance diametrically. I have to check the physical parts that I made - it's possible that they OD was slightly smaller to account for the weld on the ID of the tubing. Anyway, I was always TIG welding these things, so clearances weren't super critical. I would be inclined to design the parts around my workflow, but I'm not precious about it - if folks preferred them larger or smaller, I'd happily accommodate.

    Re: flatness, there's an updated drawing and 3D file here - let me know what you think. In the past I've added (with silver) a short standoff to allow the rack to sit just off the boss, but in most cases it wasn't necessary.

    I've got a few quotes from suppliers coming in soon, and will update as I know more!

    S
     

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Cape Girardeau,Missouri
    Posts
    341
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Post: Custom rack ends/eyes design

    Nice,
    thanks for the drawing, let me know prices when you get them.
    pm would be fine, even if you dont do a big run, I'd still be interested.
    cheers
    andy walker
     

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    43
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Post: Custom rack ends/eyes design

    All-

    I've been lagging on this, but I do have an update on my site.

    I've shown price estimates from a bunch of suppliers there - my actual wholesale cost. I'll probably apply a graduated markup on any retail orders. I'm not sure what the details would be but as should be clear from my blog post, I'll be totally transparent about my costs. Regardless, I'd expect the retail cost to be basically on par (or cheaper at quantity) with Paragon's rack ends - and these are stainless, not 1018 :)

    I'll put more info down soon, but in the meantime I'd love feedback if you all have any. Also, please throw your names in at the bottom of this post if you're interested in pre-ordering (no commitment, just for my estimates).

    More soon,
    Spencer
     

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Ashland, OR
    Posts
    311
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Post: Custom rack ends/eyes design

    I would buy some - and I vote for sourcing from the Oregon shop!
     

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Posts
    895
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Post: Custom rack ends/eyes design

    Spencer- Sign me up for 10. Can't have too many options. Andy.
    Andy Stewart
    10%

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Cape Girardeau,Missouri
    Posts
    341
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Post: Custom rack ends/eyes design

    I'll take a dozen.
    cheers
    andy walker
     

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    13
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Post: Custom rack ends/eyes design

    Sorry to interrupt this great thread with a newb question but what tube type(chromoly?) and size (wall thickness, diameter) are you using to manufacture the racks. I would like to tig weld a rear touring rack myself and would be interested in some rack ends as well. Thanks.
     

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Belen, NM
    Posts
    476
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Post: Custom rack ends/eyes design

    Tubing size question was answered in post 8.

    As for the rack ends, I'd buy 20...cool design!

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    13
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Post: Custom rack ends/eyes design

    Quote Originally Posted by Chauncey Matthews View Post
    Tubing size question was answered in post 8.

    As for the rack ends, I'd buy 20...cool design!
    Yes I saw that but I just wanted to be sure. The Paragon rack ends are used with .035 so I assume you would need to use different size tubing. I guess it comes down to personal preference.
     

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    43
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Post: Custom rack ends/eyes design

    Quote Originally Posted by degull View Post
    Yes I saw that but I just wanted to be sure. The Paragon rack ends are used with .035 so I assume you would need to use different size tubing. I guess it comes down to personal preference.
    Degull - I prefer stainless racks - 304 is totally easy to work with, and TIG-able, and doesn't need paint. The only downside is that a lot of stainless tubing is welded, but I've never had any issues with that. Anyway I usually bought from McMaster-Carr, which sells it in .375"x.028".

    All - Thanks for all the positive feedback!! I'll be in touch with a few of the machine shops in the coming week and will update the status here ASAP.

    Spencer
     

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    13
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Post: Custom rack ends/eyes design

    Quote Originally Posted by trafficbikes View Post
    Degull - I prefer stainless racks - 304 is totally easy to work with, and TIG-able, and doesn't need paint. The only downside is that a lot of stainless tubing is welded, but I've never had any issues with that. Anyway I usually bought from McMaster-Carr, which sells it in .375"x.028".
    Got it! Put me down for 10 rack ends. Thanks!!

    Fernando
     

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Brooklyn, NY
    Posts
    23
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Post: Custom rack ends/eyes design

    I'd take 10 at least.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    43
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Post: Custom rack ends/eyes design

    All-

    I've selected a supplier and the funding campaign is now live! You can see all the details and place your order on Indiegogo, here.

    For anyone who hasn't used Indiegogo before, it's a crowdfunding campaign much like Kickstarter. You choose how many parts you want and buy accordingly, and Indiegogo processes the funds and sends them to me.

    Because this is a relatively small project and I already have relationships with both my supplier (a CNC shop in Barrington, IL, who I've sourced *lots* of CNC parts from in the past) and most of you (the framebuilding world isn't *that* big), I'm planning on making the order before the end date of the funding campaign (Feb 24th). The delivery date should be early March.

    That said, I'd appreciate if you'd commit to a quantity early on, and place the order on Indiegogo. It'll make this a lot easier for me to manage logistically, and will set my mind at ease too :)

    In the interest of full disclosure, I've written a fairly long post which details the cost structure of the campaign. The net effect is that if I consider the time I spent developing the part, and the time I'll spend managing procurement and shipping & handling, this isn't much of a moneymaking venture. I'm just excited to get the parts out into the world, and can't wait to see what you all build with them!

    If anyone has any questions at all, post them here or email me directly - I'm happy to go through any details I've missed! And by the way, there's a fully dimensioned drawing of the parts here!
     

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. me on custom design and fit atmo -
    By e-RICHIE in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 91
    Last Post: 03-19-2013, 07:47 PM
  2. Sweat in the eyes
    By false_aesthetic in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 30
    Last Post: 06-17-2011, 02:49 AM
  3. If beauty is in the eyes of...
    By bironi in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 04-15-2011, 09:54 PM
  4. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 09-11-2010, 07:14 PM
  5. Custom Trunk Rack: Attn welders and metal experts
    By Saab2000 in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 34
    Last Post: 08-29-2010, 04:17 PM

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •