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Thread: frame building and eggs atmo -

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by e-RICHIE View Post

    but i do know about frames, and no matter what you bring to the table, and no matter how hard you try, or how on your game you are, no two are alike. alas, duplication and repeatability are just dreams atmo.

    is it okay to articulate these differences and even celebrate them? since i can't seem to get to that elusive other side, i reckon it is.
    One of your quotes in your movie really drove home the point you are making for me. You were talking about making the points where the chainstays mate with the dropouts. You said something along the lines of (and I apologize because I know I am not getting it right) how the shape of point is different from bike to bike and it depended on the condition of your files, your parts and you on that day. This really spoke to me.

    I struggle letting go. My dad is a tool maker and he knows I struggle with this. He told me about 10 years ago that at a certain point you have to stop making love to it and get it on its way. And this is coming from a guy who deals in dimensions that are a couple orders of magnitude smaller than I am dealing in. He said he could toil for ages trying to get a cavity in a mold to be "perfect", but in actuality there really is no "perfect".

    I sleep well at night knowing that I did the best job I could do. The bikes are safe, will go down the road or trail straight, and look as good as I can make them look. But I know that my fingerprints are on each one. Just ask Twowheels. He found a little "personality" on his bike. And he busted my chops about it just like he should have. It's like finding an easter egg.
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by zank View Post
    I sleep well at night knowing that I did the best job I could do. The bikes are safe, will go down the road or trail straight, and look as good as I can make them look.
    Mike- this is how i feel. I get the fact that i am newer at this and have more to learn. I look forward to the idea of learning more and more. It is what gets me up in the morning. I do however know my bikes are safe and the best i can build. Will the bikes change? I would think so. Do they have imperfections (sorry Richard the word just fit)? of course but non of them are more than additions to the serial # on the BB.

    I was just at the Cabin Fever Auction hanging out with Jamie Swan who is the definition of a perfectionist that has a hard time letting go. He admits it and in turn builds 3 (record high) bikes a year. He is a machinist first so accuracy is always first with him. I have learned lots from talking with Jamie and always look forward to seeing him. He is a good EGG!

    Just got a call from Rody at Groovy Cycle Works. Someone that bought a 953 stem from me sent it to him for a change to an integrated one piece handlebar/stem using his Luv Handles. He was asking me how i made the lug and if it was pinned or not. It was a good example of feeling proud knowing Rody is going to dissect my work and hopefully look at it and say "that is kind of cool".

    Cheers,
    Drew
    Last edited by EnginCycles; 01-17-2009 at 09:00 AM. Reason: spelling
    Drew Guldalian
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by e-RICHIE View Post

    is it okay to articulate these differences and even celebrate them? since i
    can't seem to get to that elusive other side, i reckon it is.


    well - i am not sure if there was thread drift, or if the question was addressed
    and i'm too obtuse to see the answer. but my reply to my own post is that it's
    okay to celebrate them. there. i said it.
     
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  4. #24
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    I say celebrate cuz you can either piss and moan about it or enjoy it for what it is. Life's too short to piss and moan in my book.
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  5. #25
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    It's the result of that striving towards the ideal that is worth celebrating - Sisyphus is a hero, remember?

    I leave Sisyphus at the foot of the mountain! One always finds one's burden again. But Sisyphus teaches the higher fidelity that negates the gods and raises rocks. He too concludes that all is well. This universe henceforth without a master seems to him neither sterile nor futile. Each atom of that stone, each mineral flake of that night filled mountain, in itself forms a world. The struggle itself toward the heights is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy.

    ---Albert Camus
    GO!
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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by davids View Post
    It's the result of that striving towards the ideal that is worth celebrating -
    i'm a striving fool bro' atmo.
    and i'm havin' a celebratin' situation -


     
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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by zank View Post
    I say celebrate cuz you can either piss and moan about it or enjoy it for what it is. Life's too short to piss and moan in my book.
    You have to celebrate it. If you're not celebrating it you shouldn't be doing it and they are 'handmade' afterall.

    I, for one, am proud of the work and I'm proud of 'your/our collective' work.

    People who see it, see it and people who know it know it - now people who know it when they see it. Those are my favorite ones. They help in the celebrating.

    conorb
     
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  8. #28
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    Strive for perfection while accepting that it will never be achieved.

    Striving,

    Dave
    D. Kirk
    Kirk Frameworks Co.
    www.kirkframeworks.com

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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Kirk View Post
    Strive for perfection while accepting that it will never be achieved.

    Striving,

    Dave
    Just laid this fillet this morning. It is a great fillet. I can still stare at it and pick the areas i wish went better. I still am very proud of this fillet.

    Drew Guldalian
    Engin Cycles
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by EnginCycles View Post
    Just laid this fillet this morning. It is a great fillet. I can still stare at it and pick the areas i wish went better. I still am very proud of this fillet.
    nice fillet, drew! slap some gravy on it and call it good! hey, what happened to that imploded starrett holesaw on your flickr site? impressive.........steve.
    Steve Garro, Coconino Cycles.
    Frames & Bicycles built to measure and Custom wheels
    Hecho en Flagstaff, Arizona desde 2003
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    www.coconinocycles.blogspot.com
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  11. #31
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    There's an old saying in Haiti that goes "Macaque carese pitit li jus temp li touye'l" which means:

    The monkey caresses it's child until it has killed it.
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  12. #32
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    Default Perfect is the enemy of good

    ...as we say in surgery after we've fixed something but still have that desire to make it 'look perfect'. Not to say one shouldn't always strive to improve one's work, but you can really mess something up trying to make it look perfect.
     
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  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by cw05 View Post
    ...as we say in surgery after we've fixed something but still have that desire to make it 'look perfect'. Not to say one shouldn't always strive to improve one's work, but you can really mess something up trying to make it look perfect.
    agreed atmo - and in most cases it's the head that gets messed.
     
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  14. #34
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    "the trouble they took for something that cannot be seen"

    I read a book about the Parthenon frieze, aka the Elgin Marbles, and learned that this magnificent sculptural element was the inner
    frieze on the temple, obscured by the outer columns. Designed as a continuous image of a processional march, it couldn't be seen from outside except between columns or from inside the columns, directly beneath it. It wasn't meant to be seen independently, but as part of the architectural whole.
     
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  15. #35
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    Once upon a time I was burning lots of energy trying to nail the answer to a complex problem ("boiling the ocean" as they say), and a wise person asked me if I wanted to spend the rest of my life being exactly wrong or approximately right.

    It's a daily battle between impossible standards and mediocrity.
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  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by EnginCycles View Post
    Jamie Swan who is the definition of a perfectionist that has a hard time letting go. He admits it and in turn builds 3 (record high) bikes a year. He is a machinist first so accuracy is always first with him.

    no offence to jamie- i dont know him.
    he's a hobbiest not a framebuilder.

    this like the wheelbuilder who takes 1 1/2 hr to build a wheel- same...hobbiest
    3 hrs to put a bike together- hobbiest
    etc.

    watch a good pro mechanic work on a real team bike.
    bang, bang, bang done.
    works well enough.

    this shit is easy to work on really. and it works fine without getting into a lather about the whole thing.
    boom... bb, crank install- 5 minutes. taking longer wont make it better.
    same with the rest.
    once saddle/ bars stem placed the rest falls into place big time fast.

    never confuse slow with good.
     
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  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveP View Post

    never confuse slow with good.

    unless you're engaged in casual sax atmo.
    thanks for all the replies to my thread.
    that's a wrapmo.
     
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