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Thread: Chain stay internal routing

  1. #1
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    Default Chain stay internal routing

    Chain stay internal routing,
    I know internal cable routing is a very marmite subject, you either love, or hate it. Personally i appreciate it for its clean lines, but this post is more about my lack of knowledge of structural strength or drilling holes in small tubes!

    So i currently have internal routing in my downtube, and am considering wether to run my disc hose / gear cable along the top of my chain stays, or to go internal. Realistically i shouldn't even be having this thought, because its all for about 9" of cable. Anyway, here's some pictures. You can see the black ovals which are rough approximations of where i will cut. I'm planning on using the same style of cap as pictured, but will have to re-work it significantly to get it to match the tube radius. Am i significantly weakening the stay by cutting a hole in it, bearing in mind that the steel tube and also the cap will all be silver soldered together. It is a Columbus Spirit chain stay 0.7mm at the thick end 0.5mm at the other.

    Absolutely any input what so ever is appreciated!

    Mark Cordall

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    Default Re: Chain stay internal routing

    I can't find the edit post button!

    Anyway its been a few years since i posted on this forum, my name is Mark Cordall
     

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    Default Re: Chain stay internal routing

    If you decide to run it inside the CS, the position you have marked is likely going to interfere with any dimpling and/or a front derailleur (maybe you aren’t planning to use one?). A little closer to the BB would seem to be better.
    Using the covering piece eliminates concerns about the strength of the metal when done right.
     

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    Default Re: Chain stay internal routing

    I've no dimple needed and also no front mech, I'll fine tune position to ensure i get a nice sweeping curve from exit of one, into the entrance of the other. I'll be very particular and get a very well fitted hole in the stay for the stainless tube to pass through, and again make sure cap is very well fitted. I can get a strong a joint as possible then, and as you say, hopefully that will be strong enough. Thanks.

    Mark Cordall
     

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    Default Re: Chain stay internal routing

    On the drive side, it looks like it will foul the chain where you have placed the rear port - especially with a 1x11 or such where you have a small(11t) small cog.

    Given where you are in the process (tubes are mitered) and assuming you don't want to throw away your DT, I would move the forward port forward toward the BB and then move the exit as far back on the chainstay as you can and rotate it out slightly (1:00 - 1:30 o'clock when viewed from the back). Use a 1/4" SS tube running through the CS. This ensures the cable doesn't rub on the seatstay too much as it reaches out to the RD and yet the exit isn't so far outward (eg 3 o'clock) that it hits your heal as you pedal - which would suck.

    I struggle with internal cables. I like that it shows the bike is custom and integrated etc etc. However, they come with so many compromises in functionality that I'm not convinced they are a net positive - especially with hydraulic hoses.

    Final Thought: One of my mentors is a builder who has been designing and building since the 70's and when I showed him one of my bikes with internal routing for all cables and Di2 wires, he said 'oh, you're trying to be too cute with all this internal routing, your mechanic will hate you'.

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    Default Re: Chain stay internal routing

    My advice would be to stay always on the top, to prevent problems.
    Running the hose on the bottom, with hydros you are likely to get "air pockets" that many people can find difficult to remove when bleeding the system; or with mechanicals you will have one more point to create friction with the wire, plus it will get the caliper out of alignment while setting it.
    Either way, try to keep the exit point of the hose/cable as far as you can from the caliper, it will just work better though you may lose on aesthetics.
    Andrea "Gattonero" Cattolico, head mechanic @Condor Cycles London


    "Caron, non ti crucciare:
    vuolsi così colà dove si puote
    ciò che si vuole, e più non dimandare"

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    Default Re: Chain stay internal routing

    Am i significantly weakening the stay by cutting a hole in it, bearing in mind that the steel tube and also the cap will all be silver soldered together. It is a Columbus Spirit chain stay 0.7mm at the thick end 0.5mm at the other.

    Absolutely any input what so ever is appreciated!

    This is for a disc application?

    That's not thick enough of a stay for disc hole or no hole.

    If not, disregard

    - Garro.
    Steve Garro, Coconino Cycles.
    Frames & Bicycles built to measure and Custom wheels
    Hecho en Flagstaff, Arizona desde 2003
    www.coconinocycles.com
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    Default Re: Chain stay internal routing

    Function over form, it's just a hose or cable.
    Bill Fernance
    Bicycle Shop Owner
    Part Time Framebuilder
    Bicycle Tragic

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    Default Re: Chain stay internal routing

    Quote Originally Posted by Cord View Post
    Chain stay internal routing,
    I know internal cable routing is a very marmite subject, you either love, or hate it. Personally i appreciate it for its clean lines, but this post is more about my lack of knowledge of structural strength or drilling holes in small tubes!
    I am late to this thread, having not read it earlier.
    My advice is to refrain from all the internal routing rather than just (only) the chain stays.
    I understand you want to bury the wiring, but at what cost?

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    Default Re: Chain stay internal routing

    Thanks, for all the replies. I have a very similar build already up and running (infact this is replacing it) i'm using that to gauge the rotation of my exits to make sure the cables clear everything. (on that frame they run on top of the chainstays)

    I'm my own mechanic, and fully understand that internal hydraulics lead to extra work. It's me doing the extra work so i can just swear at myself!!!!! And at least it has internal tubing, unlike lots modern mountain bikes with just holes at either end. That really is a challenge!!

    Like is said, i know it's a polariser. And many people just say "WHY FFS!!!!!" However i just appreciate the look. It was more the mechanical side i was pondering, just how much strength am i compromising?
     

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    Default Re: Chain stay internal routing

    Quote Originally Posted by Cord View Post
    i just appreciate the look. It was more the mechanical side i was pondering, just how much strength am i compromising?
    Tons considering that stay isn't made for discs in any way to start with.

    Even if it's just for looks.

    - Garro.
    Steve Garro, Coconino Cycles.
    Frames & Bicycles built to measure and Custom wheels
    Hecho en Flagstaff, Arizona desde 2003
    www.coconinocycles.com
    www.coconinocycles.blogspot.com

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    Default Re: Chain stay internal routing

    Quote Originally Posted by steve garro View Post
    Tons considering that stay isn't made for discs in any way to start with.

    Even if it's just for looks.

    - Garro.
    Ok, 2 questions.
    1. So does brazing in a tube and cap not really add any strength. Will it end up significantly weaker than before?
    2. For disc use should it be just a thicker wall, or somehow tie the seat and chainstays together?

    Thanks.
     

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    Default Re: Chain stay internal routing

    Quote Originally Posted by Cord View Post
    Ok, 2 questions.
    1. So does brazing in a tube and cap not really add any strength. Will it end up significantly weaker than before?

    It'll keep it from cracking longer in theory, but that's not what I'd be concerned about.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cord View Post
    \
    2. For disc use should it be just a thicker wall, or somehow tie the seat and chainstays together?

    Thanks.
    Both these things for sure - the first one being what I'm concerned about and the 2nd being a safety measure but even then your tubes are too thin.

    Disc says run a minimum of .7mm and up to 1.0

    - Garro.
    Last edited by steve garro; 3 Weeks Ago at 07:35 PM.
    Steve Garro, Coconino Cycles.
    Frames & Bicycles built to measure and Custom wheels
    Hecho en Flagstaff, Arizona desde 2003
    www.coconinocycles.com
    www.coconinocycles.blogspot.com

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    Default Re: Chain stay internal routing

    Thanks Steve, I shall go do some head scratching, and see about altering my plan.
     

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    Default Re: Chain stay internal routing

    Quote Originally Posted by Cord View Post
    Thanks Steve, I shall go do some head scratching, and see about altering my plan.
    When discs came out a lot of us learned this all the hard way.

    - Garro.
    Steve Garro, Coconino Cycles.
    Frames & Bicycles built to measure and Custom wheels
    Hecho en Flagstaff, Arizona desde 2003
    www.coconinocycles.com
    www.coconinocycles.blogspot.com

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