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Thread: Fat bikes

  1. #21
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    Default Re: Fat bikes

    Sean, Kristofer: do you really feel the need for a suspension fork on a fatbike?
    luis prado alonso
    Rodar Ourense

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Fat bikes

    Quote Originally Posted by turkish View Post
    Sean, Kristofer: do you really feel the need for a suspension fork on a fatbike?
    Hope I'm not speaking out of turn here, but IMO, "need" is going to be one of those personal preference things. Comes down to terrain, style, desires, age, etc. My limited time on a fat bike didn't make me feel like I needed a suspension fork, but I ride rigid quite a bit on 27.5 wheels. If I lived somewhere with longer downhill sections and a bit of chunk, I don't think suspension would be a bad thing. I would have to "check up" less when hitting chunky rocky sections. I'd hate to write checks that my butt can't cash. I'd consider the squishy fork your overdraft protection.
    Will Neide (pronounced Nighty, like the thing worn to bed)

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  3. #23
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    Default Re: Fat bikes

    Quote Originally Posted by VertigoCycles View Post
    It'll be interesting to see what small builders are going to do to get around the massively wide crown of the Bluto. Luckily for the steel builders there are pre-bent down tubes available...for the ti guys, not so much.
    If I recall correctly, the guys at Nova had a HUGE Pre-bent Ti down tube they were carrying around at Nahbs when I spoke with them when they stopped by my booth. May want to give them a call. The crown clearance White's Snowpack Fork (Now MRP) had a really wide stance and I did not need to use a pre-bent tube. Then again it did not have adjustment knobs on top of the fork crowns.. I'd have to get a drawing of the Bluto to see what's doing.

    Quote Originally Posted by turkish View Post
    Sean, Kristofer: do you really feel the need for a suspension fork on a fatbike?
    That's a great question actually. From my own experience, I have never found that I "needed" suspension on my fat bike. On my 29er, definitely yes but the amount of suspension travel that I feel I need hovers, for me, somewhere in the 100-120mm range. On my fat bike, there's so much passive suspension going on, the first thing that struck me was that I really did not need suspension. The one thing I can see is running a susp. fork, down hill when the going gets chunky and the front gets to hopping. Will the fork quiet that down? Not sure. But then again, I'm primarily riding my own in snow, anywhere from 20 deg's down to 10 or 5 deg's. (I've been out in colder weather, but I found that you can only really stay out for so long in that kind of weather - it's more of a preventing cabin fever ride than getting exercise.) So need for suspension for me, in snow is next to nothing. Out on the trail, like I said I could not see the need but that's not to say others have not been jones-ing for it.

    I will build around one if the client "must have" but I'd really have a conversation with them to get down to brass tacks to figure out exactly how they're riding that bike, what kind of terrain they are frequenting, how they will use the bike and what will really suit their needs best. Both of the fat bikes I'm building now will not have suspension forks. Both will have 44mm tapered head tubes and both will have tapered, steel unicrown forks with clearance for 5" tires, one of which will have a 15x142mm TA. Out of the next 4 fat bike forks I am building, 3 will have 15x142mm TA's.
    Kristofer Henry : 44 BIKES : Made to Shred™
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  4. #24
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    Default Re: Fat bikes

    Quote Originally Posted by turkish View Post
    Sean, Kristofer: do you really feel the need for a suspension fork on a fatbike?
    As they said, it depends on the individual. For the types of trails we have out here in the PNW, I haven't seen the need for suspension on a fat bike. The front end definitely gets bounced around on fast chunky sections, but finding your zen with tire pressure seems to calm it a bit. I'd rather see some super smary pants come up with a way to damp rebound at the tire.

    Kris - I haven't looked at Nova for a very long time. The last time I used them (six or seven years ago) the tubes had a lot of runout, poor surface finish and weren't drawn as specified. I'll look into this and maybe will give them another test...but I remain skeptical.
    Sean Chaney
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  5. #25
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    Default Re: Fat bikes

    Quote Originally Posted by fortyfour View Post
    I'll be switching over to 190mm as everyone has asked for room for 5" tires whether they need it or not. It's a good move, but I'm happy that I experimented in 170mm and 5" tires because if the request ever does come in (which it has), I know I can make it all work and still have a pretty tight setup. 170mm is really ideal at 3.8/4" tires. I've also noted that the larger tires kind of like a little more wheelbase/chainstay length. Too short and it gets a bit on the choppy feeling side I feel. (this is in regards to 5" fat and 29+)



    And one of the reasons I push people towards 1x setups on fat bikes. Especially with the newer cassettes and 10/11 speed options in combination with thick/thin rings. I've spent 2 winters on the same Wolftooth ring and as worn as it has gotten, I have still not lost a chain.
    100mm BB's or wider?
    - Garro.
    Steve Garro, Coconino Cycles.
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  6. #26
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    Default Re: Fat bikes

    Quote Originally Posted by steve garro View Post
    100mm BB's or wider?
    - Garro.
    100mm wide BB with 170 or 190mm.. Raceface has options on spindle lengths as well as rear specific cranks with their Cinch Cranks (which i have been wishing someone would do this for so long and Race Face finally did it). Really interested in their new Turbine Cinch offerings as well.

    Personally, I wouldn't mind a 120mm bb with english threads and a spindle/crank to match It is tight down there and I will have my own fat bike on hand to double check all the forming of the chainstays. I use certain aspects of my own bikes as full scale physical references.
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  7. #27
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    Default Re: Fat bikes

    ditto that. 120 would be nice. I've turned a few 120mm PF30 shells that work great (I know that some people have a distaste for PF30, but I don't have a problem with them personally) but I still have to toe nail the stays on the shell to get around the tire. Though this is mostly a constraint created by my bender and the limits of squishibility and forming with CWSR tubing.
    Sean Chaney
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  8. #28
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    Default Re: Fat bikes

    Got my first set of fat wheels in the queue, using the new SunRingle Mulefut 80 SL rims. They're tubeless ready with a UST-ish bead hook with the bead bump, but they're also singlewall rims with big cutouts to save weight. I had hoped SunRingle had a rim strip specific for this rim, but when I called and asked how the tubeless set up was done I was told "well, that takes a little ingenuity." There is no out-of-the-box solution. I've got a few ideas I'll try, and I picked up a tire and will experiment with the setup before sending it off to the customer. From what I can tell with my Google skills no one else has set one up yet....or at least, they haven't shared how they did it.

    This will be a very colorful set of wheels and I'm pretty excited about putting them together.





    These tires are crazysauce.
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  9. #29
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    Default Re: Fat bikes

    Quote Originally Posted by dgaddis View Post
    These tires are crazysauce.
    I take it you've never seen a Bud or Lou in the flesh?

    RE: Tubeless setup - I foresee some gorilla tape in your future...

    Here's a pretty good write up regarding a holy Rolling Darryl Tubeless conversion.
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  10. #30
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    Default Re: Fat bikes

    Quote Originally Posted by fortyfour View Post
    This is the first fat tire I've seen in person off a rim. BIG. HEAVY. 'MERICA.

    Yeah I've seen that tubeless article before and had something similar in mind.
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  11. #31
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    Default Re: Fat bikes

    They (fat tires - any brand) are quite jaw dropping when you first see them. I know when I first held a Nate in hand I thought that was big. Then I saw a Bud and a Lou: Good Grief Charlie Brown..

    The trouble I've seen is there is a tradeoff for lighter weight. They make the sidewalls thinner, and in my own experience, after only one ride here in NH on dirt, I was seeing sidewall wear. So there is only so much you can do I think with the tires. "Light, Strong, Cheap". Pick two holds true.
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  12. #32
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    Default Re: Fat bikes

    I was going to say Gorilla Tape as well - I'm maybe lay down a strip of Stan's tape 1st then GT.

    I think (more coffee) that we used a blue rim strip - ????
    Can't recall the vendor right now….
    - Garro.
    Steve Garro, Coconino Cycles.
    Frames & Bicycles built to measure and Custom wheels
    Hecho en Flagstaff, Arizona desde 2003
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  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve garro View Post
    I was going to say Gorilla Tape as well - I'm maybe lay down a strip of Stan's tape 1st then GT.

    I think (more coffee) that we used a blue rim strip - ????
    Can't recall the vendor right now….
    - Garro.
    Apparently there is some unofficial-"official" Stan's WIDE yellow tape sold by a shop (I believe) in Alaska? I've seen some use clear helicopter tape as well. I've seen some do gorilla tape down the center and then Stan's yellow tape on either side to help with that "pop" at the end.

    For the record, I'm officially one cup away from finishing the large Bodum french press of coffee...
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  14. #34
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    Default Re: Fat bikes

    Quote Originally Posted by fortyfour View Post
    Apparently there is some unofficial-"official" Stan's WIDE yellow tape sold by a shop (I believe) in Alaska? I've seen some use clear helicopter tape as well. I've seen some do gorilla tape down the center and then Stan's yellow tape on either side to help with that "pop" at the end.

    For the record, I'm officially one cup away from finishing the large Bodum french press of coffee...
    I think it was a Kris Holm rimstrip for their 29er "free ride" rims - which are awesome, BTW……
    - Garro.
    Steve Garro, Coconino Cycles.
    Frames & Bicycles built to measure and Custom wheels
    Hecho en Flagstaff, Arizona desde 2003
    www.coconinocycles.com
    www.coconinocycles.blogspot.com

  15. #35
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    Default Re: Fat bikes

    Using a split 24in tube is a good way to go fat-tubeless.

    You can really feel a difference in a fat tire when tubeless. There's a lot going on between lots of traction / low pressures / goofy tube / huge but thin tire casings. Getting that tube out of there makes a fatty roll very nicely.
    Greg Ames
    *Hack-Ista*

  16. #36
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    Default Re: Fat bikes

    The ones I'm building are getting a very special rim strip to show through the holes.

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  17. #37
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    Default Re: Fat bikes

    FWIW, if I hadn't already mentioned it, I splurged on the HED wheels and set them up tubeless with Gorilla tape. They were pretty fussy to setup...the HED is a single wall rim and the nips protrude above the rim wall so the G-tape needed to form down over top of them. This required several days (weeks?) of tubed life to get the tape to adhere to the rim. Once the tubes were pulled, I put about 240g of Stan's goo (all I had left from a quart bottle bought a decade ago) in each tire and went to town. LOTS of soapy water in a spray bottle was used (always kept on hand for motorbike tire changes) to locate leaks on the bead seat and even more around the nips. It seems that Gorilla tape isn't quite burly enough to completely survive the pressure from the nips. Probably half the nipples on each rim partially aerated the tape.

    If I were to do it again (and I'm in no hurry to do so) I'd probably take a page out of my buddy Gregors motorbike experiments and would seal the nips with urethane. I suspect it would weigh slightly less than the tape and might be slightly less fussy.

    Also, this has been holding up shockingly well.
    Sean Chaney
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  18. #38
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    Default Re: Fat bikes

    Quote Originally Posted by VertigoCycles View Post
    It seems that Gorilla tape isn't quite burly enough to completely survive the pressure from the nips. Probably half the nipples on each rim partially aerated the tape.
    I'd wondered about this, and was planning on running some stan's tape over top of the nipples, and one big wide swath of Gorilla tape over the entire inner surface of the rims from bead hook to bead hook, covering the Stan's tape over the nipples, and the inside-out hello kitty tape showing through the cut outs.

    I'm also guessing there's no way I'll ever get a tire seated with just a floor pump.
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  19. #39
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    Default Re: Fat bikes

    Quote Originally Posted by dgaddis View Post

    I'm also guessing there's no way I'll ever get a tire seated with just a floor pump.
    That likely depends on the tire and rim but you're probably right. Even with the compressor, 15psi was about the point at which I was adding air at the same rate as the air loss due to leaks.
    Sean Chaney
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  20. #40
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    Default Re: Fat bikes

    Was just setting up a Rabbit Hole/Knard wheelset tubeless, and thought I'd share my favorite pet peeve solution.

    Tubeless valve stems are generally too long, just incase someone want's to use them in a deep aero rim. Both aesthetically/functionally this sucks, I don't know why it's become such a thorn in my side.

    Enter the "custom" valvestem. I can't be the only one to do this, but it's not mentioned really ever. You'll experience some level of anger when you realize all components of the "custom" valvestem were very likely within arm's reach the last time you spent money purchasing valvestems for a tubeless wheelset.

    It literally takes 1/2 stroke of a hacksaw to cut a valvestem out of a used tube, look for the ones with the removable core. And I can pretty much guaranGoddamntee you have some presta nuts sitting around. A little No$hit locktite and some silicone and you have a nearly free custom length stem.



    This is especially applicable with single wall rims. There should be enough stem to easily use a pump and no more.



    And if you use the "split tube" method for Fat Tubeless, use a schrader tube as the donor. Carefully remove the valve from the tube, and then use a presta stem (with the rubber reinforcement where it's attached to the tube still attached) from a used tube as your "split tube" valvestem......If that makes sense in text.
    Greg Ames
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