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Thread: no economic ish....just product notes.

  1. jerk's Avatar
    jerk is offline VSalonista jerk New Kid
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    no economic ish....just product notes.

    this will be a short report because i don't know how long i'll have access to the brother-in-law's borrowed ibook thing...and i keep screwing up the mouse commands and opening up bizarre saved websites having to do with advanced fruit fly genetics. colin is the type of dangerous radical sarah palin warned you about- utilizing untold amounts of monies which could see better use in the coffers of haliburton and blackwater....to produce a super fruit fly that'll be able to invade and terrify produce markets, unwashed garbage cans and lunchrooms and scuzzy diners the world over....

    but let me talk about something i know.

    the bike doesn't matter in a way that it has never not mattered before. the average pro-tour sled sucks. it's parts are nice, it is light, it is saleable and cool looking but it lacks more than just the charm that charachterised the tools of the trade during any other time in history. almost without exception-the pros are riding chinese built carbon junk. sometimes these bikes have geometry that some product manager was able to rip-off from some old italian drawing so that thing at least handles right. sometimes, the product manager fanices himself smarter than fifty years of italian road bike design, and re-invents the wheel in such a way that only three of the 12 stock sizes can be employed by pro-riders. a 5'1 guy on 54cm bikes- 6'4 guys on 58cm bikes and all of'em on the same 54cm tt bike....mad painful but it doesn't matter.

    there are a few guys in the indusrty who restore my faith in bike design though. andy walser cumudgeonly selling 4 pound garage made tt frames at full retail to pro-riders who risk losing their jobs for their decision to buy some speed makes me smile. so too does the million euro development of theo bos' track bike. beyond this you've got guys like dario and richard still letting competition be their muse in their efforts to conitnually refine the race bike.

    but it's a couple of the big guys i'd like to really tip my hat too. the first among them is pinarello. they seem to have been able to harness the global reality that makes italian production of any sort of manufactured good a losing proposition. still, their bikes exude class, look great and more importantly ride like a great bike should. and if you need something really special because one of the 16 stock perfectly balanced princes doesn't quite meet the need, enter the dogma- a customizable magnesium wonder-bike that rides better than any bike made by anyone ever.....pereiro and petacchi should never share anything...but the dogma-made with the same tubeset even- suits both these athletes perfectly.

    but the winner of who makes the best race bike doesn't go to our pals in treviso, amsterdam or parts unknown, switerzerland. it goes to the 800 pound gorilla from waterloo wisconsin. the new madone is an incredible bike. it looks great, its light, it has wonderful torsional rigidity and its geometry in all its sizes make sense. it was designed by bike guys who listen to their athletes and are determined to get them the best tool in the world with which to perform their jobs. they don't claim any revolutionary knowledge of geometry- yet saw fit to allow for the lower headtubes modern shifters and bar shapes and the current morphology of most racers demand. their integrated post and bearing systems make sense both from a performance, marketing and retail sale standpoint. when i needed a custom seat mast for my client brian scalabrine so he could get his saddle high enough on his 64cm frame, the boys in wisconsin just made one. when i fit zdeno and sent a bike cad drawing to trek- they made the bike- 150mm stem, custom fork, seat mast and all. they could have just told me to stick my client on a 64cm performance fit madone bike and deal with a bit less drop- but they didn't, they re-inforced a 62cm pro fit frame and made z a perfect bike.

    bear in mind-trek had no clue who my clients were. they did it because they are bike builders and they could. look at the pictures from astana training camp and you'll see a number of custom aluminum rigs for some of the guys. this is the only pro-tour team that still has its bike supplier making custom frames for lowly domestiques simply because the ds and the rider might benefit from it. trek gets it.

    nonetheless, the trek madone has to be one of the most boring bikes i've ridden. but boring is a good thing. boring like a formula one car, no bad habits just a bike that does what you tell it too.

    jerk

  2. Saab2000's Avatar
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    Nice report. I'd like to hear more about the Madone. Almost nobody who hangs at this forum or other ones for that matter rides one. Or admits to it.

    Let's hear from those folks who have ridden the latest Madone.

  3. doofus Guest > HEY REGISTER ok?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Saab2000 Click here to enlarge
    Nice report. I'd like to hear more about the Madone. Almost nobody who hangs at this forum or other ones for that matter rides one. Or admits to it.

    Let's hear from those folks who have ridden the latest Madone.
    madones are really nice bikes

    hell, i almost replaced the pacenti with a 58cm AL trek frame, because the geo doesn't suck and its a good bike. the giordana was a few hundred bucks cheaper...so you know how i had to go....

  4. redturbo's Avatar
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    trek madone w/red
    Click here to enlarge
    "SHUT UP LEGS"

  5. bigbill's Avatar
    bigbill is offline VSalonistas bigbill New kid graduate
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    In the mid 90's, several of my friends were riding Trek Carbon frames. The sponsor shop in Charleston, SC was a Trek dealer and I could get one at a deep discount. At the time, the biggest was a 58cm and I rode a 60. There was a set of twin brothers from somewhere in the upstate who were tall and rode Treks. These guys were really thin and I was more of a grinder/sprinter. I just didn't like how much seatpost was showing. I shopped for one back in 2003 and couldn't get one my size because of the time of year and available stock. I ended up with a Fina. I guess it's all about timing.
    I heart brown bikes.

  6. Saab2000's Avatar
    Saab2000 is offline VSalonistas Saab2000 New kid graduate
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    This is not a bad looking bike. The graphics are a bit much for my taste, but the proportions are nice. But why do they put the brake cable hold on the right side of the frame?

    I'll take mine in a 58.

    Click here to enlarge

  7. davids's Avatar
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    Trek's got a certain, vivid aesthetic going on these days. I'd have to go with a "Project One" Madone with Force and the Carbon Bontrager Clinchers. With a single color paint job, this one runs $7300. (It's rather quiet here at the office as the clock counts down to 5:00...)

    I wish I was Tom Brady.
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  8. swoop is offline resident tastemaker swoop will become famous soon enough swoop will become famous soon enough
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    i think its easy in any production process to lose the bike to the production process. sometimes i wonder if all the sizes get ridden before they go into production for what's out there and i've come to hate the plastic pluggy details i see in so many bikes.

    i was talking a to friends at F*** about how they'd ordered the production run from China and sold out by August or so... and that for all the shots of the company's namesake at team camps... for some many folks its bike INDUSTRY and not BIKE industry. i suppose that's always been the dance.

    it is the first time i've thought trek made a really nice little bike... much more so than its competitors.
    shrink, terrorist, poet, president of concerned cyclists for the abolishment of bovine source bicycle parts and head of the disaffected commie dishwashers union.

  9. bigbill's Avatar
    bigbill is offline VSalonistas bigbill New kid graduate
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by davids Click here to enlarge
    Trek's got a certain, vivid aesthetic going on these days. I'd have to go with a "Project One" Madone with Force and the Carbon Bontrager Clinchers. With a single color paint job, this one runs $7300. (It's rather quiet here at the office as the clock counts down to 5:00...)

    I wish I was Tom Brady.
    I just went to the project one website and "built" a madone with Campy Record but the campy record brakes aren't compatible with my build. That seemed a little odd. My build sans brakes was a little over $10K.
    I heart brown bikes.

  10. Athame's Avatar
    Athame is offline VSalonistas Athame New kid graduate
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bigbill Click here to enlarge
    My build sans brakes was a little over $10K.

    :eek:

  11. rphetteplace is offline VSalonistas rphetteplace New Kid
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    I live in Wisconsin. Madone's are our state bird, they are everywhere. Not that it's a bad thing. Just not my style to drink the same flavored milkshake as everyone else.

  12. twowheels's Avatar
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by redturbo Click here to enlarge
    trek madone w/red
    Click here to enlarge
    a little scrunched. not enough reach. lots of arch in the back. looks like he moved his cleats back. lots of spacers. don't know about a guy with that kind of position.....

  13. doofus Guest > HEY REGISTER ok?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by twowheels Click here to enlarge
    a little scrunched. not enough reach. lots of arch in the back. looks like he moved his cleats back. lots of spacers. don't know about a guy with that kind of position.....
    let's not drag out these old "fit wars" chestnuts, whether ironic or not, ok?

    save those for another thread -- keep this thread about Trek bikes and their design and construction...both of which are quite good.

  14. Cary Ford's Avatar
    Cary Ford is offline VSalonistas Cary Ford New Kid
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    I would get a Ridley before I got a Trek.
    Last edited by Cary Ford; 12-25-2008 at 03:31 PM.

  15. pdxmech13's Avatar
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    I just recieved a free Madone frame and will be riding the ever-loving-shiite out of it this summer. Build pics to come.

  16. agilismerlin is offline VSalonistas agilismerlin New kid graduate
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    i had a first and second generation trek 5200, and enjoyed the original, and the two warrantied replacments.

    they were extremely light, at the time.

    trek stands behind their products.


  17. suspectdevice's Avatar
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Cary Ford Click here to enlarge
    I would get a Ridley before I got a Trek.
    You are in a pretty small minority, I'd wager. Even the Trek 'cross bike these days is pretty awesome (I'd say better than any Ridley)...

  18. mike p is offline VSalonistas mike p New Kid
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    "the bike doesn't matter in a way that it has never not mattered before. the average pro-tour sled sucks. it's parts are nice, it is light, it is saleable and cool looking but it lacks more than just the charm that charachterised the tools of the trade during any other time in history. almost without exception-the pros are riding chinese built carbon junk. sometimes these bikes have geometry that some product manager was able to rip-off from some old italian drawing so that thing at least handles right." Jerk

    Even a layman like me knows this is 100% true. Ninety percent of the carbon bikes produced today look like they were designed by the same team of uninspired dolts. With a change of paint and decals many of them would be indistinguishable. I guess you could say the same about most old wop frames but they were great looking and riding back then and there classic's today. I have a hard time believing that todays carbon will be tomorrows classic's. I'd include the madone and pinarello in this group even though I'm sure Craig is completely accurate. I just find them uninspiring.
    I'd love to see one of the big companys bring out a modern classic racebike in steel like a peg or carbon like a crumpton. I guess if I were running the company we'd be bankrupt in no time! It's a sign I'm getting to be an old fart.

    Mike

  19. Watoni is offline VSalonistas Watoni New Kid
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    Agree that most protour bikes are about as exciting as plain tofu ...

    Pinarello would fit me perfectly (make mine a size 54), and Trek's are nice as well but I have never been able to make the fit work for me

    What about Bianchi? Don't they still do custom in multiple materials for riders? You can get custom AL, carbon, ti and steel now apparently ...

  20. caleb's Avatar
    caleb is offline VSalonistas caleb New kid graduate
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    Good observation about Pinarello, especially since they're specing their mid-range bikes with Centaur. Good move.

    Click here to enlarge

    I like what Merckx is up to as well. Although I haven't yet ridden one, I think the EMX-3 is my pick for carbon Euro (Asian)-trash bike of the year:

    Click here to enlarge

    For $3600 retail, it's a decent deal. I just sold last season's bike yesterday so I'm sorely tempted.
    Last edited by caleb; 12-27-2008 at 01:04 PM.

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