Mavic OP CD's vs Ceramic?

[velo_guy]

Looking to find a set of rims to lace up with some ck r45s that I just won in a bike shop raffle. I have a set of silver mavic open pros laced to 105 hubs and really enjoy riding them, so I'm thinking about sticking with a set of op's. However, I've been looking at the Open Pro CD rims and have been trying to read up about them but keep coming across two very different answers. 1) saying that they are ceramic rims and they just burn through brake pads, and 2) they are not ceramic and are fantastic rims.

What's the truth about the cd version of these rims?

This forum always seems to be extremely knowledgable so I figured it wouldn't hurt to ask.

[maunahaole]

CD is a hard ano finish. Ceramic has a ceramic treatment on the brake track that gives an improved braking, particularly when wet. Pretty sure that you will need special brake pads for ceramic, as it is more abrasive. The ceramic coating looks like a rough blackish stripe on the brake track. The rim could be CD and ceramic at the same time.

Downside with ceramic is that it can flake off once it gets chipped and then the coating is on borrowed time.

You will find differing opinions about the CD finish. I think that it does not work well in the wet until it gets rubbed off a bit to the metal finish underneath. I think that the plain silver rims may be a little more durable as well. Keep in mind that this is my opinion only FWIW. It should not dissuade you from using them, as they are still good rims.

[SignatureJustin]

Technically the CD would be more durable since you need to wear through the CD coating before getting to the silver finish underneath. I like the look of CD rims both when new and when they are worn in. Always had good luck with the coating.

I believe Mavic doesn't make the Ceramic rims anymore, although you may find them out there in the world. People either loved or hated ceramic but it had its value.
Either way works, they are good rims.

I would say get the CD ones and buy them from the shop you won the R45's from, since the shop can get them currently from Mavic.

[maunahaole]

I knew that this was out there...


Subject: Anodized vs. Non-anodized Rims
From: Jobst Brandt
Date: April 20, 1998

Dark anodized rims were introduced a few years ago as a fashionable alternative to shiny metal finish, possibly as a response to non metallic composites. Some of these rims were touted as HARD anodized implying greater strength. Hard anodizing of aluminum, in contrast to cosmetic anodizing, produces a porous ceramic oxide that forms in the surface of the metal, as much as 1/1000 inch thick, about half below the original surface and half above. It is not thick enough to affect the strength of the rim but because it is so rigid, acts like a thin coat of paint on a rubber band. The paint will crack as the rubber stretches before any load is carried by the rubber. Similarly, anodizing cracks before the aluminum carries any significant load.

Rims are made from long straight extrusions that are rolled into helical hoops from which they are cut to length. Rims are often drilled and anodized before being rolled into a hoop and therefore, the anodizing is already crazed when the rim is made. Micro-cracks in thick (hard) anodizing can propagate into the metal as a wheel is loaded with every revolution to cause whole sections of the rim to break out at its spoke sockets. In some rims, whole sidewalls have separated through the hollow chamber so that the spokes remained attached to the inner hoop and the tire on the outer one. In contrast, colored anodizing is generally too thin to initiate cracks.

As an example, Mavic MA-2 rims have rarely cracked except on tandems, while the identical MA-40 rims, with a relativley thin anodizing, have cracked often.

Anodizing is also a thermal and electrical insulator. Because heat is generated in the brake pads and not the rim, braking energy must flow into the rim to be dissipated to the atmosphere. Anodizing, although relatively thin, impedes this heat transfer and reduces braking efficiency by raising the surface temperature of the brake pads. When braking in wet conditions, road grit wears off anodizing on the sidewall, an effect that improves braking.

Anodizing is not heat treatment and has no effect on the structural properties of the aluminum.


source: Anodized vs. Non-anodized Rims by Jobst Brandt

[pdmtong]

the ceramics are very abrasive and I would only pursue those if they are still available and the rim will see wet weather use.

the CD looks GREAT when new. as the rim wears there could be some silver streaking as the coating wears. some people dont mind, others hate it. I have the CD laced to black (sadly not silver) record hubs and silver spokes and dont care if/when they might streak since the overall aesthetic is terrific.

[SignatureJustin]

Subject: Machined rims
From: Jobst Brandt
Date: January 26, 2003

"anodizing, which is a hard ceramic, whether thick or thin, is more durable than the machined rim."

Which is it Jobst?

[bdaghisallo]

I have Reflex ceramic tub rims on all of my training hoops and I would not ride without them in the winter time. Combined with Swiss Stop green pads, the braking is so superior to any alloy brake track I have ever tried that it ain't funny. And. to boot, the ceramic lasts forever. My ten year old rims look brand new.

That said, I know some of the final batches of Mavic's ceramic treatment on the Open Pros were not as good as the old batches (funny how they regressed in that!). If you can find some old NOS Open Pro ceramics, from somewhere like EuroAsia, you'll be better off. With the Reflexes, they stopped selling them long before they ran into problems with their ceramic treatment, iirc.


If you can get the ceramic, do it.

[sk_tle]

I second the above comment. I have a wheelset with ceramic tubular rims. Best braking I ever experienced, again with Swisstop green pads. No specific pads needed, they just wear a bit faster. But as a winter/rain wheelset, this is great.

I presume the new exalith brake track is superior and hope mavic will introduce it on individual rims. But it doesnt look like the way Mavic is taking it. I haven't seen new rims for a while from them.

[caleb]

the CD looks GREAT when new. as the rim wears there could be some silver streaking as the coating wears. some people dont mind, others hate it.

Yes. The CD will look like this when worn, and the braking surface gets more silver with time:



The Ceramics look like this after they're worn - these have 10-15,000 miles on them:



The Ceramics make a little more of a gritty sound during braking, but they don't eat pads too badly. If you get the ceramics, I'd just use your normal pads until they're worn out then pick up some ceramic-specific pads that'll last a really long time.

[Gattonero]

Looking to find a set of rims to lace up with some ck r45s that I just won in a bike shop raffle. I have a set of silver mavic open pros laced to 105 hubs and really enjoy riding them, so I'm thinking about sticking with a set of op's. However, I've been looking at the Open Pro CD rims and have been trying to read up about them but keep coming across two very different answers. 1) saying that they are ceramic rims and they just burn through brake pads, and 2) they are not ceramic and are fantastic rims.

What's the truth about the cd version of these rims?

This forum always seems to be extremely knowledgable so I figured it wouldn't hurt to ask.

To what has already been said, I would only add that the CD version is an excellent choice, in the vast majority of the installations, there has never been an issue braking in the wet.

And it is true that Mavic has stopped the production of Ceramic Op. Pro's, the last batches would not be at Mavic's standards. IMHO, what they should do is Exalith Open Pro's, FTW!

[Matthew Strongin]

IMHO, what they should do is Exalith Open Pro's, FTW!

Awesome idea!

[Bssc]

riding in the rain a lot ceramics rule for rim brakes
dry riding Cd if you do not use your brakes much they will last a long time and look real good the whole time