105 5700 shifts like crap - looking for advice

[dogrange]

OK, so I have 105 (5700) shifters on 2 bikes. One shifts fine, the other like crap. Specifically, it is sluggish and features very high lever effort on the rear with moderately-high effort on the front. I am seeking advice on how to get bike #2 shifting at least as well as bike #1. Here's background:

Bike 1 - 57cm crappy Jamis touring bike, used for hauling stuff and pulling kid in a trailer. Aforementioned 5700 shifters with 105 (5700) FD, old-ass Shimano Deore RD (long cage). Cables are the Performance Bike house brand (Clark's), self-installed, of course. Shifts nicely with acceptable lever effort front and rear.

Bike 2 - Felt F15X cross frame, 5700 shifters with SRAM Force FD, 105 (5600) short cage RD. Cables are standard Shimano house brand SIS, brand new. Front shifting is OK, but still not as good as Bike #1, lever-effort, wise. This bike used to have a 105 FD and effort was about the same. Rear shifting is terrible, high effort, imprecise shits, very hard to get dialed in.

Obvious things I have tried and other notes:
1. Cable runs and routing very similar between bikes.
2. The parts from (badly-shifting) bike #2 used to be on another frame (crappy Jamis cross frame) and shifted just as bad or even worse, using standard-grade Jagwire cables (vs. current standard grade Shimano SIS cables).
3. The RD used to be on another bike and shifted really easily and accurately (with 7800 shifter).
4. I have a cheap carbon frame with full 7800, Yokozuna reaction cables and it shifts very well with low lever effort.

My next thought is to get another Yokozuna cable kit and try that. I hesitate, however, because my experience with Bike #1 tells me that 5700 can be made to work well with cheap, standard cables, so I hesitate to ruin a good cable set and end up with same crap setup.

Any advice welcome, even if it's just general 5700 setup tricks anyone cares to share.

[maunahaole]

Maybe try blasting the shifter body out with some wd40. They get gunked up and degrade.

The knowledgeable shimano folks will be more help, but it sounds to me like the problem is cruddy shifter and not the rest.

[nahtnoj]

...imprecise shits...

What is the relative age of your two sets of shitters? And how have they been used? Via process of elimination, it sounds like other components in the system can be ruled out, but check your FD/RD pivots. If they have been crashed, particularly the RD, you could have scraping that causes pivots to bind. I've had this happen on MTB RDs.

[pajotfix]

Maybe try blasting the shifter body out with some wd40. They get gunked up and degrade.

This is what I had to do on my old DA 7400 STIs. I flushed them with Brunox. They'd shift better - for a while. Wet and or dirty conditions didn't agree with them. In the end I upgraded to 10 speed Ultegras. But the flushing method is well known to owners of older Shimano STIs...

[jamesand]

Derailleur hanger, cable routing snags, flush housing cuts before ferrules installed...

I'm betting on RD hanger. Probably a flexy( or bent) one.

[sonny]

Maybe try blasting the shifter body out with some wd40.

no blasting anything except air. what works with derailleurs doesn't work with shifters atmo

compressed air first. then pull it off the bike and spot lube

[C D]

no blasting anything except air. what works with derailleurs doesn't work with shifters atmo

compressed air first. then pull it off the bike and spot lube

this.

check cable routing, housing length, and that the cut ends of the housing aren't causing cable drag.

replace inner and outer with shimano sp-41. it is the best quality cable system made.

lubricate with tri-flow, lubricate derailleur pivots too. make sure chain and cassette are in good condition and that your hanger is straight while you're there. make sure cable is secured to derailleur correctly.

5700 works very very well. I'm guessing that it is your fault.

excuse lack of punctuation, broken collar bone.

[deepsix]

Bike shop. Bike mechanic. Retail. People. Relationships. Money. Value. Results. Trust. Happiness.

[WayneJ]

I had a similar frustrating situation using SRAM.
After several cable and housing swaps with no success, I found the culprit ...
The shift cable was contacting the small holle in the cable housing ferrule (on the shifter end) and it caused lotsa drag.
A small twist drill to open up the hole was all that the situation required to make it right.

I don't know Shimano, but if the 5700 series routes the shift cable under the bar tape, you may have the same problem.

[dogrange]

Hey, some great suggestions here.

Took cassette off and cleaned (pretty gummed up, could cause slower shifting). Hangar looked a bit bent, so subtly bent it straighter (note to self, obtain hangar alignment tool). Chain was also about 2 links too long, so fixed that.

Haven't had time to set up entirely and test yet, so I will take WayneJ's suggestion and inspect/ream ferrule, as well as CD's suggestions (and if all this doesn't do the trick, will replace with SP-41 or Yokozuna). Shifters haven't seen a lot of use (about same as on Bike #1), so I think they are not gummed internally, but will air blast as well.

Thanks again for the advice, will report when I get it set up.

[coolberto hipsterdor]

Run a cable all the way through the housing without it being connected to anything then pull it back and forth and feel if there is excessive friction. If not, then troubleshoot elsewhere.

[EddieBirdsell]

Run a cable all the way through the housing without it being connected to anything then pull it back and forth and feel if there is excessive friction. If not, then troubleshoot elsewhere.

This is where I would start. Hmm, looks like the Felt has downtube RD cable routing. I'd do what CH says and put tension in the cable with my hand while running through some gears. Maybe start at the rear derailleur cable exit and then try the exposed cable on the downtube. By some POE, narrow down the general area where the resistance is coming from. My bet, if the pivots are working cleanly, it that it's got to be in the housing or ferrule alignment.

[GAAP]

Run a cable all the way through the housing without it being connected to anything then pull it back and forth and feel if there is excessive friction. If not, then troubleshoot elsewhere.

yup. Best advice yet

[Unoveloce]

If the Felt uses DT routing, clean off the plastic cable guide with some rubbing alcohol. If you use a sports drink with sugar, it will spill out of your bottle and eventually wind up on the guide. You won't see it build up, but it has an amazing ability to add a ton of friction to a drivetrain. I would also double check all the cable housing ends and ferrules for friction. It's pretty crazy how one sticky ferrule will make your shifting poor. I also like to use a heavy duty brass ferrule where the cable goes into the rear derailleur. It seems to make the feel a little more precise compared to plastic ferrules.

[nash]

Bike shop. Bike mechanic. Retail. People. Relationships. Money. Value. Results. Trust. Happiness.

truth

[liv2bike]

I offer no mechanical advice except...get Campagnolo and be done. Sorry, had to throw that out there. I do wish you the best and hope you get it sorted out. Things like that are a pain in the ass.

[dogrange]

Current status:

Per WayneJ's advice, replaced the plastic ferrule at the shifter with a metal one with a bigger opening that I had lying around, also replaced the other ferrules (frame and RD) with metal ones. That seemed to make a significant difference, so I'm in the realm of acceptable shifting/effort now. Big improvement! I'll also clean off the cable guide per Unoveloce's advice (used frame, so previous owner may have sugared it up).

While the shifting it is now acceptable, I think there is more performance in there. My plan is, when I get around to it (3 kids, job, etc.), I'll just recable with a higher-quality set (high-end Shimano, or Yokozuna), using all metal ferrules with large openings and follow the other best practices outlined in this helpful thread. I went cheap because I wasn't sure if I would like the frame or be keeping the bike, but I do and so I'll commit to the full-monty cable build. In retrospect, I should have just done that up front anyway as the savings of $$ is not that significant, but the savings in time would have been, but LIVE and LEARN!

Deepsix said "Bike shop. Bike mechanic. Retail. People. Relationships. Money. Value. Results. Trust. Happiness." I'm with you, man, and believe me, my LBS gets lots of $$ and visits from me. In this case, my goal is up my mechanical skills, and the only way to do that is to do the job yourself, screw it up yourself and fix it yourself. With the help of internet buddies, of course.

[WayneJ]

Current status:

Per WayneJ's advice, replaced the plastic ferrule at the shifter with a metal one with a bigger opening that I had lying around, also replaced the other ferrules (frame and RD) with metal ones. That seemed to make a significant difference <snip>

Does this improve my "Rep Power?" Or is it like golf, where the lowest score wins?

[Matthew Strongin]

Does this improve my "Rep Power?" Or is it like golf, where the lowest score wins?

I think you get a point for helping, but lose a point for asking, so it's a wash. But what do I know...my rep sucks. Good tip to check the ferrules, though.

[dogrange]

OK, I went crazy, checking the REP POWER stars for you guys.