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Thread: 10 speed chain on 6 speed cranks?

  1. #1
    defspace is offline VSalonistas
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    Default 10 speed chain on 6 speed cranks?

    I have an old Falcon Team Race (http://www.bikevintage.com/falconbik...n-reynolds.jpg not mine). I have a Rival rear shifter and a matching SRAM single speed left brake lever sitting in a box collecting dust. I was thinking about putting them on the bike and using the downtube lever for front shifting. I have a set of Askiums that are not being used that could be used for the wheel/cassette. If I'm just a rear derailleur away from turning this into a 10 speed rig, I'd be very keen on doing that.

    I worry that there might be issues with the width of a 10 speed chain on a crank used on an old six speed drive train. I've checked - the BCD is smaller than 130 so I can't use any of my other chainrings. Anyone have any experience with this sort of stuff?

    Also, if anyone has a good resource, I'd love to know more about the bike - I don't know anything about Falcon.

    Thanks

  2. #2
    nrs5000 is online now VSalonistas
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    Default Re: 10 speed chain on 6 speed cranks?

    Aside from the issues you raise which others are more qualified to talk about, you'll need to figure out of the rear spacing is 130mm -- a good chance it's smaller and a 10s rear wheel won't fit.

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    shiggy's Avatar
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    Default Re: 10 speed chain on 6 speed cranks?

    Quote Originally Posted by defspace View Post
    I have an old Falcon Team Race (http://www.bikevintage.com/falconbik...n-reynolds.jpg not mine). I have a Rival rear shifter and a matching SRAM single speed left brake lever sitting in a box collecting dust. I was thinking about putting them on the bike and using the downtube lever for front shifting. I have a set of Askiums that are not being used that could be used for the wheel/cassette. If I'm just a rear derailleur away from turning this into a 10 speed rig, I'd be very keen on doing that.

    I worry that there might be issues with the width of a 10 speed chain on a crank used on an old six speed drive train. I've checked - the BCD is smaller than 130 so I can't use any of my other chainrings. Anyone have any experience with this sort of stuff?

    Also, if anyone has a good resource, I'd love to know more about the bike - I don't know anything about Falcon.

    Thanks
    Not likely. I have had 9-sp chains jam on 8-sp chainrings.

    If you are thinking of a using friction shifter with 10-sp that can be fussy, too. It can be difficult to make clean shifts and trim the closely spaced cogs without indexing.

  4. #4
    Too Tall's Avatar
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    Default Re: 10 speed chain on 6 speed cranks?

    It won't work the chain is way way too narrow. Change the crank, you'll be in fat city.

  5. #5
    defspace is offline VSalonistas
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    Default Re: 10 speed chain on 6 speed cranks?

    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    If you are thinking of a using friction shifter with 10-sp that can be fussy, too. It can be difficult to make clean shifts and trim the closely spaced cogs without indexing.
    I was planning on using a modern, bar mounted index shifter for the rear, but the original downtube friction lever for the two rings up front. That should be okay (assuming i swap the crank too) right? Just have to pull from low stop to high stop.

    If the spacing is 126 and not 130 (I'll have to check) Can't I just squeeze the wheel in there? It's Reynolds 501, if that matters.

  6. #6
    nick k is offline VSalonistas
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    Default Re: 10 speed chain on 6 speed cranks?

    Quote Originally Posted by defspace View Post
    If the spacing is 126 and not 130 (I'll have to check) Can't I just squeeze the wheel in there? It's Reynolds 501, if that matters.
    Yes you can. You can just shove it in there, and after a time the stays may stay spread. Or you can ask a shop to cold-set the frame for you and check its alignment while they're at it. Depending on the crank you choose (or maybe you can just replace the rings, though that's not necessarily cheaper these days), picking a bottom bracket with some chainline flexibility can help keep the costs of any trial and error down.

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    Human Epic Jolt is offline One of a kind Vsalonista
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    Default Re: 10 speed chain on 6 speed cranks?

    Quote Originally Posted by defspace View Post
    I worry that there might be issues with the width of a 10 speed chain on a crank used on an old six speed drive train. I've checked - the BCD is smaller than 130 so I can't use any of my other chainrings. Anyone have any experience with this sort of stuff?

    Thanks
    Hmm.

    You might be able to make something work. I have a 10 speed chain on what i guess is probably designed for 7 or 8 speed. i flipped the inner chainring and it reduced the gap enough for it to work. a lot of them were offset to one side. dunno about what you got but you need to eye it up and try it you think it might go. if you can get the chain in the gap with your hands then it will certainly go in there when riding, which is not a good thing.

    for the bcd..whatever its worth.. sheldon has a list here Sheldon Brown's Bicycle Crank/Chainring Bolt Circle Diameter Crib Sheet

    what you want to do is look at is the center to center column. measure like in the attached pic.

    Chainring BCD Measure.jpg

    take that measurement and subtract 10mm* (unless you are good at measuring to imaginary centers). find the closest to it you can find on his chart on the c-c col. (remembering to read the chart for the same amount of bolt holes you have) and then move your finger/eye over to the BCD column to find your BCD.

    if you dont want to use the chart you can multiply by:

    3 Bolt: 1.155
    4 Bolt: 1.414
    5 Bolt: 1.701
    6 Bolt: 2

    give or take a couple of decimal places.
    Last edited by Human Epic Jolt; 02-05-2013 at 06:35 PM. Reason: *most holes are approx 10mm dia. and there are 2 of them. if they're 8mm subtract 8.

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    Human Epic Jolt is offline One of a kind Vsalonista
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    Default Re: 10 speed chain on 6 speed cranks?

    so in the pic above... 94.64 minus 10 (the diameter of one hole) equals 84.64 (which is pretty much center - center of adjacent holes).

    its got 5 holes (you can't see them all but there are 5), so multiply by 1.701

    that equals 143,97264

    which almost equals 144mm.

    ---


    on a 4 bolt crank (where there are opposing holes on the extremities of the BCD) as 2 holes are placed on opposite ends of the diameter you can measure as above pic across 2 opposing holes (instead of 2 adjacent holes) and subtract your bolt hole and you will get your BCD.

    shoot steveP a PM for DA9000 calculations. He'll tell you how to avoid later Campagnolo 5th holes too.

  9. #9
    defspace is offline VSalonistas
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    Default Re: 10 speed chain on 6 speed cranks?

    Thanks for the help. Looks like I've got obsolete 122BCD Stronglight cranks (the back of the arms say M7 170 made in France). I'll mess around with flipping around the rings and see what I can come up with. Just what I needed - another project!

  10. #10
    Human Epic Jolt is offline One of a kind Vsalonista
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    Default Re: 10 speed chain on 6 speed cranks?

    shout click and do a robot arm.

  11. #11
    coolberto hipsterdor is offline VSalonistas
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    Default Re: 10 speed chain on 6 speed cranks?

    8 speed chain is probably the narrowest that will work reliably on 6 speed cranks. 8 speed chains also work on 9-10 speed cranks, rear derailleurs and 5-8 speed cassettes/freewheels.

  12. #12
    sk_tle is offline VSalonistas
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    Default Re: 10 speed chain on 6 speed cranks?

    I don't know the purpose of the bike, but you may want to make it runs in a 1x10 config too. Just use the limit screws of the front derailleur to lock it in a safe "chain guard" position. You can get a nice range with a wifi-li 11-32 sram cassette and a long cage rival or apex derailleur, even with one front ring.

  13. #13
    Gattonero's Avatar
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    Default Re: 10 speed chain on 6 speed cranks?

    Quote Originally Posted by defspace View Post
    I have an old Falcon Team Race (http://www.bikevintage.com/falconbik...n-reynolds.jpg not mine). I have a Rival rear shifter and a matching SRAM single speed left brake lever sitting in a box collecting dust. I was thinking about putting them on the bike and using the downtube lever for front shifting. I have a set of Askiums that are not being used that could be used for the wheel/cassette. If I'm just a rear derailleur away from turning this into a 10 speed rig, I'd be very keen on doing that.

    I worry that there might be issues with the width of a 10 speed chain on a crank used on an old six speed drive train. I've checked - the BCD is smaller than 130 so I can't use any of my other chainrings. Anyone have any experience with this sort of stuff?

    Also, if anyone has a good resource, I'd love to know more about the bike - I don't know anything about Falcon.

    Thanks
    A Reynolds 501 can be re-tracked easy, but can you track it even? It is important for a good ride.

    Aside from this, the Aksiums would fit, the shifter may work but expect LOTS of fiddling with the R/h one. Better use an 8sp. cassette and setup. An 8sp chain would work better with your cranks, a 10sp would just "skate" in between the rings while shifting
    Andrea "Gattonero" Cattolico, head mechanic @Condor Cycles London


    "Caron, non ti crucciare:
    vuolsi così colà dove si puote
    ciò che si vuole, e più non dimandare"

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