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Thread: Tragic crash on Rapha Gentlemen's Ride

  1. #1
    Jas0n is offline VSalonistas
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    Default Tragic crash on Rapha Gentlemen's Ride

    It hurts the heart to hear about the loss of life, but rings even louder when it's a cyclist doing what we all live and love to do. I haven't heard all the details, but it's certainly tragic ...

    I suppose we all acknowledge some risk when we get on the bike, but I never think in any reasonably possible terms that it could ever happen to me.

    Dear all, Thank... | Facebook

    Godspeed, Robert.

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    SteveP is offline vSalon Legend
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    Default Re: Tragic crash on Rapha Gentlemen's Ride

    sad to hear always.
    be careful out there brothers.

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    Patch's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tragic crash on Rapha Gentlemen's Ride

    Surprising not to see anything from Rapha other than a comment on Facebook.
    Our beloved Swoop, on the other hand, is quick to respond and as always en pointe:
    Death. « Speedbloggen

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    Lovetoclimb is offline VSalonistas
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    Default Re: Tragic crash on Rapha Gentlemen's Ride

    Lots of wisdom in that post. Best wishes to the friends and family of the one who has passed.

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    pdmtong is offline VSalonistas
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    Default Re: Tragic crash on Rapha Gentlemen's Ride

    there are four times in my life where I certainly could have very well ended up dead. twice from drowning, twice in a car - once 180d and once 360d at 75mph. that said, I know my limits when riding. see those poor souls getting airlifted out of levi's gran fondo last year? ever think that when someone puts hay bales up on an organized ride there is a reason.

    Who really knows why that guy died other than he was going too fast for the situation. very fine line here between everything is great and this is fun and oh shit this is not going to end well. straddle that line carefully all. sympathies to his family

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    jitahs is offline VSalonista "I don't hate fat people"
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    Default Re: Tragic crash on Rapha Gentlemen's Ride

    I'm going to post that asshole's words here as he may take it down:

    NOV 8 | DEATH.

    Posted by NOEL, November 8th, 2011 at 1:44PM
    There was a Rapha ride last weekend that took riders down Las Flores Canyon. My father lived up that canyon in the early 80′s and I know it like the back of my hand. I’ve been riding it since 1983…. and I just rode it last week. I always give every descent my full attention and I treat every descent the same way a surfer treats a big wave… with the respect and attention it deserves. The rider that died simply overcooked a turn near Hume and Las Flores. A moment’s inattention on a dimishing radius turn and he’s gone. Riding is playing.. but its also a skill. Always always always treat your riding like a skill that takes devotion and patience. Have fun… but never bite off more than you can chew and never be afraid to slow down or take a break. I’m not a fan of fondos and fun rides…. they tend to celebrate disconnected riding. I hate that someone died on that road. I hate that the shop chose Las Flores when there are other descents that take so much less skill (when I read the email I commented to a friend that it was too technical a descent for that kind of ride and that someone would get killed). I’m tired of seeing folks ride like it doesn’t take skill. I’m tired of seeing guys that are more worried with getting faster than they are about getting better.
    I traded messages with a friend.. we host a slow long Saturday ride up the coast. We’ve decided to change the focus of the ride to being about the group riding old school, perfectly aligned 2 abreast with nary a wheel overlapping. I love the Lance effect and all… but how you ride is what matters. It’s easy to get strong, it’s an endless conversation with yourself and the bike to get connected. Ride beautifully. It’s what matters.

    You may think it’s ok to die riding because its doing something you love. I call bullshit. Dying having overcooked a turn is a real shit way to die. We’ve all over cooked a turn in our lives… its not worth dying over and knowing how to save it is a basic skill. Yes it takes luck. Yes people die every day in any number of stupid ways, and people die on their bikes.

    Work on your descending. Dont get suckered into anything above your level. Dont be afraid to melt a rim or pull off and think about the next set of turns. And really think about those big group rides. If the nature of the ride is that being off the front or the top ten folks is the only good place to be… tap out. It’s not worth it. I love Rapha products. I’ve come to love them. I love the branding and the adverts… but you know it isn’t real. Don’t show up for that ride thinking what you see on the website is real. Riding isn’t a sentimental act. It’s not romantic until you’re off the bike and the photos are processed and printed. Ride present, ride smart, think critically and make your own luck.

    I saw a picture of the guy… he looks like he was a lovely fellow. His bars were too high, too many spacers. I’m willing to bet his stem was too short. How you sit on a bike matters. How your bike fits matters. How much weight you have and where your center of gravity is going down a hill matters. It’s life and death.

    Thanks for indulging my rant. I’ll probably take this down later.
    "Old and standing in the way of progress"

  7. #7
    jitahs is offline VSalonista "I don't hate fat people"
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    Default Re: Tragic crash on Rapha Gentlemen's Ride

    Additionally, this speaks to the need of a RIDE LEADER, responsible for briefing the assembled.

    Anyone who can't answer the question Do You Know What A Decreasing Radius Turn Is doesn't get to ride.
    "Old and standing in the way of progress"

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    R.Liverman's Avatar
    R.Liverman is offline VSalonistas
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    Default Re: Tragic crash on Rapha Gentlemen's Ride

    Thankk you, this has no part in any heartfelt eulogy:

    "I saw a picture of the guy… he looks like he was a lovely fellow. His bars were too high, too many spacers. I’m willing to bet his stem was too short. How you sit on a bike matters. How your bike fits matters. How much weight you have and where your center of gravity is going down a hill matters. It’s life and death.".

    Why not make fun of him for having bar tape that doesn't match his saddle?
    There is water at the bottom of the ocean.

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    djg714 is offline VSalonistas
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    Default Re: Tragic crash on Rapha Gentlemen's Ride

    Pretty tasteless shot from Swoop. No surprise.

  10. #10
    jitahs is offline VSalonista "I don't hate fat people"
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    Default Re: Tragic crash on Rapha Gentlemen's Ride

    Let me parse this out so you understand: sitting on the bike right, having the fitness and strength to get in that position, being able to modulate your speed to prevent going in too hot, letting it run when the exit can be seen, being able to lower your center of gravity and know intimately how your bike, body and mind respond in a life and death situation are all the same thing.

    If you are stuck sitting up high with too much weight on your rear wheel so that a quick counter steer results in no front traction, you may have made some fatal miscalculations.
    "Old and standing in the way of progress"

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    twowheels's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tragic crash on Rapha Gentlemen's Ride

    The thing is we all make mistakes, it is just that the ramifications are rarely fatal. I've done a double front somersault down a 50' cliff on a mountain bike and came out of it completely unscathed. And I know how to ride. But I was lucky. It doesn't always happen that way.

    Look at Simoncelli. A simple low side turned fatal.

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    jitahs is offline VSalonista "I don't hate fat people"
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    Default Re: Tragic crash on Rapha Gentlemen's Ride

    You got lucky; better to have some chops. My dad had a phrase: the better you are, the luckier you get.

    Simoncelli...made some errors attributable to youth, imo.
    "Old and standing in the way of progress"

  13. #13
    hughesb is offline VSalonistas
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    Default Re: Tragic crash on Rapha Gentlemen's Ride

    Quote Originally Posted by jitahs View Post
    I saw a picture of the guy… he looks like he was a lovely fellow. His bars were too high, too many spacers. I’m willing to bet his stem was too short. How you sit on a bike matters. How your bike fits matters. How much weight you have and where your center of gravity is going down a hill matters. It’s life and death.
    Quote Originally Posted by R.Liverman View Post
    Why not make fun of him for having bar tape that doesn't match his saddle?
    I thought that paragraph fit in with the rest of it. He's lamenting the fact that people go faster than their ability and never really learn the finer points of bike handling. Whether you think that point deserves to be made at the expense of the recently departed is another issue entirely.

  14. #14
    DougS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tragic crash on Rapha Gentlemen's Ride

    what a bummer.
    i have had some anus puckering occurrences while descending recently
    sure hate to go out like that

    my thoughts go out to his family
    rest in peace, man

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    twowheels's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tragic crash on Rapha Gentlemen's Ride

    Quote Originally Posted by jitahs View Post
    You got lucky; better to have some chops. My dad had a phrase: the better you are, the luckier you get.

    Simoncelli...made some errors attributable to youth, imo.
    I'm going to call bullshit here. Your response suffers from the same ignorant and arrogant assumptions as swoop's. He didn't know the poor guy that died anymore than you know me. But I'll bet you one thing. That is that I have more "chops" than you'll ever have. However, that doesn't matter a whit. My point, which you miss completely, is that everybody makes mistakes. I do. You do. Swoop does. Show me somebody what has ridden over 50,000 miles and says that they have never broken a collarbone, rib, helmet, wrist, shoulder, hip, you fill in the blank, and I'll show you somebody who is full of shit.

    I do agree with you on one thing; Simoncelli made lots of errors attributable to youth. But he made them before his fatal accident.

    Shit happens. All the time. Its usually not fatal. But for the grace of god.....

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    PJN
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    Default Re: Tragic crash on Rapha Gentlemen's Ride

    Was he wearing a helmet while getting epic?

  17. #17
    JoB
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    Default Re: Tragic crash on Rapha Gentlemen's Ride

    Quote Originally Posted by PJN View Post
    Was he wearing a helmet while getting epic?
    Dude, WTF? We're using a dead guy to generate our humor?

    We're better than that.

  18. #18
    R.Liverman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tragic crash on Rapha Gentlemen's Ride

    Quote Originally Posted by twowheels View Post
    Shit happens. All the time. Its usually not fatal. But for the grace of god.....
    I dont believe in god, but read the thread about accidents to reaffirm how luck each and every one of us is
    There is water at the bottom of the ocean.

  19. #19
    ericpmoss is offline VSalonistas
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    Default Re: Tragic crash on Rapha Gentlemen's Ride

    Someone please shut this down now. People are getting overheated and saying things I hope they wouldn't say after a little time has passed.

  20. #20
    jitahs is offline VSalonista "I don't hate fat people"
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    Default Re: Tragic crash on Rapha Gentlemen's Ride

    Quote Originally Posted by twowheels View Post
    I'm going to call bullshit here. Your response suffers from the same ignorant and arrogant assumptions as swoop's. He didn't know the poor guy that died anymore than you know me. But I'll bet you one thing. That is that I have more "chops" than you'll ever have. However, that doesn't matter a whit. My point, which you miss completely, is that everybody makes mistakes. I do. You do. Swoop does. Show me somebody what has ridden over 50,000 miles and says that they have never broken a collarbone, rib, helmet, wrist, shoulder, hip, you fill in the blank, and I'll show you somebody who is full of shit.

    I do agree with you on one thing; Simoncelli made lots of errors attributable to youth. But he made them before his fatal accident.

    Shit happens. All the time. Its usually not fatal. But for the grace of god.....
    Call all the bullshit you want. Let's back up a sec.

    That you have more chops than me or me than you? When did this turn into a pissing match?

    I make a lot of mistakes; go look in the stupid crash thread for my examples. I'm lucky to have not died. I'm typing this with a fucked shoulder.

    I got your point. It is a very simple, clear cut point. Not much to comprehend really.

    My "ignorant, arrogant assumptions" are based on the rider blowing a corner and dying. Why did he blow it? Could be many reasons:

    1) technical descent, about which the ride organizer gave a green light to. I wouldn't have included it.
    2) lack of familiarity with this descent
    3) lack of skill
    4) lack of proper position
    5) lack of pre-ride briefing to the effect of, "This descent is really hairy with a lot of sketchy corners and limited sightlines. Don't be a hero and follow the guy in front. Ride your own ride. They guy in front of you may race motorcycles or be an out of shape former Cat 2.
    6) lack of rider flexibility
    7) lack of great vision

    So to recap, you are saying no one is infallible. No shit.

    I am saying there are a lot of teachable points here, among which are many a rider can control. Doesn't really matter how he died; what's going to prevent the next dude from doing so? We can all sit around and say, "Poor guy, there but for the Grace of God go I". That's rather selfish. Everyone should learn how to descend in the best way possible.

    How many of these points are bulletted that riders study and minimize? An attitude of Shit Happens isn't going to bring this guy's kids their Dad back.

    You are also wrong about Simoncelli - he tried to pick the bike up, couldn't, it brought him into the race line, game over. Rossi lets it slide and goes into the gravel if it were him.

    There's something to be said for experience in both situations.
    "Old and standing in the way of progress"

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