Pelizzoli frames

[dbh]

I see Ciocc is building under his name again. Giovanni Pelizzoli's got a pretty slick website, but I can't understand how the math works on his frame prices. His stock frames start at 600 euros, which works out to a little under $850. From his website at least it appears he's doing the brazing, and his frames come with chromed HT lugs, fork crowns, and rear stays. How on earth is he turning a profit on these? Is there something I'm missing here?

[gomango]

I don't get it either, but I sent him an email last week.

I think I'll go through the process with him in the fall.

Excellent price, pretty frames!

[dbh]

I sent an email and got a very quick response. Standard geo frame does come with chromed ht lugs, fork crown and seat stay. They quoted me 100 euros express shipping to the East Coast with a turn around time of 2-3 weeks as they hide my frame size in stock. Otherwise he said it would have been a 60 day turnaround. Still don't know how they're making money on this, but it's tempting as hell. Only thing that's holding me back is I can't find any feedback from owners stateside.

[Rico]

My mid 80's CIOCC still rides fine. BUT i have no idea if the design or build has changed.

[Jimbolina]

I VERY recently purchased one of his framesets - a Corsa GP (road frame). The contact there is Alessandro, and he's super nice and very responsive.

I ordered my frame unfinished (no chroming or paint) for 450 euros and it is very well made. It arrived beautifully sandblasted, and ready to go. I intend on painting it myself later this year, but for now I simply wiped down the entire frame and fork with (new) motor oil to keep it from rusting.

I was NOT happy with the shipping, as the box arrived damaged, and the headtube had a tiny ding on it, but other than that, it looks great. The frame and fork was well wrapped in a paper-like tape, so it was unscratched. Just that damn shipping box.

It has a combination of old Cinelli lugs that Pelizzoli has had his name engraved onto, so those sort of details are appreciated. This guy - Giovanni Pelizzoli - really is one of the last of the old guard Italian frame builders left who actually builds the frames himself. In fact, he does the brazing on all of his lugged steel frame offerings, which is unusual in this day and age. His team does the finishing, but it's cool to know an old master such as he is doing the important part.

A side note - Pelizzoli just recently turned 69 so he won't be making these forever.

I highly recommend them - just insist on better packaging! Tell Alessandro Jim Cissell sent you.

Jim

[anon.]

How on earth is he turning a profit on these? Is there something I'm missing here?

Stock sizes, production runs, proximity to tubing supplier, lax(er?) environmental standards for plating, no distributors to keystone the price, a crew of folk who have been in the business for decades and know how to crank them out quickly/efficiently. Those debarnardi thron pista frames that were popular a few years back were all handmade in Italy and retailed for about $450, iirc - all that billato know-how and equipment had to go somewhere.

[sjauch]

I am also interested in the Corsa GP frame and contacted them by email for info. Alessandro was very helpful and quick to respond. The price on these is pretty amazing and will probably order one this summer.

Jim: Did you give them a heads up on the box problem?

[Jimbolina]

Yes - I am in contact with them about the damage.

Alessandro is working with me on that matter, and has been good since it was a shipping problem, and not something they did in their shop.

I told them I wished they had double-boxed the frame, but who knows - traveling that far anything can happen, even to a ruggedly packages container.

Jim

[the bottle ride]

Peaked my interest- had a Ciocc for a bit when I was interested in Italian bike (now only US made bikes get my pulse going...exception being Time...oh, and Pegoretti)
I must be a total lame-o: did a web search and I could not find the site.
Can you post the link?

[sjauch]

Here you go: Pelizzoli world | Today, the true Italian Craftsman of the past.

[the bottle ride]

Gracias man.
They look like they did back in the day- great.

Just not sure i can go back to threaded- why do I have bad memories of threaded/quill set ups?

[dbh]

Gracias man.
They look like they did back in the day- great.

Just not sure i can go back to threaded- why do I have bad memories of threaded/quill set ups?

I bet they'd give you a threadless steerer if you special ordered it. Anyone know if they're using the "new" Columbus SL or stocks of the old stuff they had laying around? How does SL compare to some of the newer tubing such as PegoRichie, etc?

[dbh]

I VERY recently purchased one of his framesets - a Corsa GP (road frame). The contact there is Alessandro, and he's super nice and very responsive.

I ordered my frame unfinished (no chroming or paint) for 450 euros and it is very well made. It arrived beautifully sandblasted, and ready to go. I intend on painting it myself later this year, but for now I simply wiped down the entire frame and fork with (new) motor oil to keep it from rusting.

I was NOT happy with the shipping, as the box arrived damaged, and the headtube had a tiny ding on it, but other than that, it looks great. The frame and fork was well wrapped in a paper-like tape, so it was unscratched. Just that damn shipping box.

It has a combination of old Cinelli lugs that Pelizzoli has had his name engraved onto, so those sort of details are appreciated. This guy - Giovanni Pelizzoli - really is one of the last of the old guard Italian frame builders left who actually builds the frames himself. In fact, he does the brazing on all of his lugged steel frame offerings, which is unusual in this day and age. His team does the finishing, but it's cool to know an old master such as he is doing the important part.

A side note - Pelizzoli just recently turned 69 so he won't be making these forever.

I highly recommend them - just insist on better packaging! Tell Alessandro Jim Cissell sent you.

Jim

Would you mind posting pics of the unpainted frame? Curious what they look like raw.

[Chance Legstrong]

I need a Jerk ruling here please

[Jimbolina]

Here's a pix the shop sent me...

It's Mr. Pelizzoli holding my actual (unfinished/sandblasted) frameset.

Jim

[dbh]

Here's a pix the shop sent me...

It's Mr. Pelizzoli holding my actual (unfinished/sandblasted) frameset.

Jim

Resistance is futile. I just emailed Alessandro to pull the trigger on a 54cm. Now I've got some thinking to do on paint.

[anon.]

I bet they'd give you a threadless steerer if you special ordered it. Anyone know if they're using the "new" Columbus SL or stocks of the old stuff they had laying around? How does SL compare to some of the newer tubing such as PegoRichie, etc?

Not sure which version they're using, but the new SL is made with Columbus' niobium alloy steel, which is the same stuff used in the SFL/pegorichie, Spirit, and Life tubesets. The smaller diameter tubes will deflect more under load than their OS brethren, but the thicker walls (.8mm on SL vs .7mm on SFL) will offset this a bit.

Old SL is substantially heavier and less stiff than the new stuff. I'm only a buck thirty-five and I can feel the bb cluster flexing significantly on my SL bike. Comfy ride, for sure, but definitely not a feeling you'd associate with a modern race bike.

[fixednwinter]

This really brings me back. As a starving college student in the '80's, I could never afford the Ciocc frames that hung in the ceiling of my LBS at the time. It's fantastic that Pelizzoli is still building at almost 70 yrs. The current price is unbelievable and it would almost be worthwhile just to buy one for nostalgic reasons.

As anon. mentioned, it doesn't take much to flex those old SL frames. When I finally was able to afford an SL frame during college (sadly, not a Ciocc), I only weighed 120 lbs at 5'9", so an SL frame was a good match for me then. Today, I weight 40 lbs more (!). Riding an old school SL frame for me now would not be a pretty sight.

[Jimbolina]

Indeed, it is fantastic this guy's still building frames. Pretty cool, actually.

In my mind, he's actually one of THE last of the old school, hands-on, Italian masters. He's got history, and obviously knows what he's doing. 'Nuff said.

Think about it - besides Pegoretti, who's really left? Mondonico was the last big one to stop, and yes, we still have Colnago, but I'm pretty sure he hasn't built a frame in years anyway. There just isn't any more of these kind of guys left.

My thoughts were I'd better take advantage of this situation. he's no spring chick (neither am I!) and the price is absolutely incredible. Where else can you get a handmade frame of this caliber, at this price? C'mon - where?

When these guys are gone, that 'old world' hand-crafted, traditional lugged-steel racing machine will be gone. Yes, there will still be builders, and many of them are right here in the good ol' USA, but that Italian thing is pretty special. And gettin' pretty rare.

Food for thought...

Jim

[merckxman]

re fork in photo: I don't know who makes these but they show up on a lot of bike in Italy. Maybe Billato or someone like that.