pedals & shoes that allow a FORWARD cleat

[giordana93]

sorry if this is a bit of a "self-help" thread, but I thought I would seek the collective wisdom (:adore:) for some suggestions for pedals and/or shoes that allow a more forward cleat

I know lots of people are looking for more rearward, but I'm maxed out to the front on my Carnac Legends (43s) and Time RXS and ball of foot still falls a few mm behind the pedal axle.

2 reasons for this, basically: I have pretty short toes, so the ball of my foot is more forward than average; and 2, I have a pretty wide fore-foot, so probably buy shoes a bit longer to get some width; I've tried sidi megas, and the extra material works in front but leads to slop at rear--my arch and heel are normal width.

Obviously, I've lived with this for decades without major issues, but I'd like to try out at least a true ball of foot over the pedal spindle, since I'm now going through a whole re-evaluation of my fit and have become critically aware that it all starts with the feet. so, if anyone has some experience with this relatively obscure parameter, I'd appreciate it.

cheers, Marvin


extra info, fwiw: CONI figures for cleat placement, size 43= 9.5cm axle to front of shoe; 44=9.9. the ball of my foot measures at 7cm from tips of toe, so I've been pretty close or past what Steve Hogg recommends (spindle at a cm or so behind ball of foot)..apologies again for perhaps a "bike fit" issue.

[WadePatton]

Why not modify the shoes you have? (Or an old pair) Grind longer the slots in the sole-so long as groove for nut plate will allow fwd movement. I'm 'bout to do that going in the other direction to make my Sidi's match my Diadora set up.

[Mordalo]

What kind of pedals are you using?

Also - measuring from the either end of a shoe can be tricky - its the last (shoe form) that should be used...and of course, you don't have access to that. That said, experimenting with placement based on your foot (vs. an external shoe measurement) is key...

The Carnac and Time are probably the best suited models for your described foot shape/ width/ /etc. You might also look at Lake as another basis for comparison.

Moving the cleat holes forward is not that hard - but if the bases are nylon, then the internal structure will not likely allow you to move the cleat mount (the hardware) very easily. Much easier to achieve if you have a carbon base (just scarier when you go drilling holes in that expensive carbon!).

In most shoes you can drill 1CM fore (or aft) without too much problem, while still maintaining strength in the shoe. 1CM is also about how much room you'll need to get new hardware (the threaded inserts) into the shoe. I usually recommend leaving in the old hardware - and now you'll just have 6 holes, with 2 complete areas where you can mount your cleat. In the end, you'll have about 18 - 20mm of fore-aft adjustment.

Note- careful not to drill to far forward - most shoes are the thinest in the forefoot, forward of the first cleat hole. When you put your new hardware in, you might have to grind down the thread insert a bit, as it will likely protrude from the base and you will not be able to get the cleats tight. If you try to shim them from the inside, you'll only make a hump in the shoe that feels like a pebble when you ride.

Lastly - before you drill - set your cleats on the shoe with no screws. Set them up centered on the existing mounting holes. Then slide them forward so that the cleat holes are eclipsed by the cleat (IE; move them to where you want them to end up). Now - check to see if the curve of the base is competiting with the curve of the cleat. Are there gaps between the shoe and cleat? If you had to tighten bolts now, would it cause the shoe or cleat to bend or change shape? If so - then you are now compromising the cleat/ pedal interface which can have varying results.

If the bosses don't approve of us talking about this here, feel free to PM me for more....

Good luck!

-D

[giordana93]

What kind of pedals are you using?

Time RXS, as noted, along with my trusty old Carnacs. I'm not quite ready to take the drill to the Carnac--they are getting long in the tooth anyway, and they, along with the Time pedals, are on the Giordana, which has become my "control" bike, and I'm setting up a second bike for messing around, so I'm looking at new pedals and shoes first, since it seems that the Times were more rearward than speedplays x-series. Don't have an spd-sl or Looks on hand to measure; it would be nice if one of those got me close enough without drilling shoes.

By the way, where does one hunt down the hardware/nut inserts ? maybe I'll dig out some retired shoes for experiments. This issue was less acute in the days of leather shoes (that I could buy the right length and let the width stretch out) and quill pedals (ride without cleats until a clear mark formed on the sole....)

[Mordalo]

Go to your local specialty screw shop for mounting hardware. Look for an M5 insert. It will have a flange around the top, and you'll likely have to grind one side off to keep everything fitting tight without overlaping the existing hardware.

Contact Veltec too...they might have replacement inserts for Sidi they can sell you.

[boots2000]

If the ball of your foot falls behind the pedal axle wouldn't you need to move the cleat back rather than forward to get the ball of the foot over the pedal axle?

sorry if this is a bit of a "self-help" thread, but I thought I would seek the collective wisdom (:adore:) for some suggestions for pedals and/or shoes that allow a more forward cleat

I know lots of people are looking for more rearward, but I'm maxed out to the front on my Carnac Legends (43s) and Time RXS and ball of foot still falls a few mm behind the pedal axle.

2 reasons for this, basically: I have pretty short toes, so the ball of my foot is more forward than average; and 2, I have a pretty wide fore-foot, so probably buy shoes a bit longer to get some width; I've tried sidi megas, and the extra material works in front but leads to slop at rear--my arch and heel are normal width.

Obviously, I've lived with this for decades without major issues, but I'd like to try out at least a true ball of foot over the pedal spindle, since I'm now going through a whole re-evaluation of my fit and have become critically aware that it all starts with the feet. so, if anyone has some experience with this relatively obscure parameter, I'd appreciate it.

cheers, Marvin


extra info, fwiw: CONI figures for cleat placement, size 43= 9.5cm axle to front of shoe; 44=9.9. the ball of my foot measures at 7cm from tips of toe, so I've been pretty close or past what Steve Hogg recommends (spindle at a cm or so behind ball of foot)..apologies again for perhaps a "bike fit" issue.

[giordana93]

If the ball of your foot falls behind the pedal axle wouldn't you need to move the cleat back rather than forward to get the ball of the foot over the pedal axle?

thanks for catching that; I misstated it; it is indeed the spindle that is behind my ball of foot (BOF from hereon). I wish I could use the student excuse, "you knew what I meant!" but it was just plain wrongly written. not enough coffee this morning.

fwiw, this makes it pretty much impossible to pedal toes down, and, I believe, has encouraged more seat setback and a lower seat. maybe that's some drift we don't need.
still interested in feedback on the keo's or spd-sl's in this regard. oh, and I suppose the speedplay zero's. thanks

[SpeedyChix]

Quick reply w/o reading so may be a repeat: Speedplays end up pretty far forward.

For me, I couldn't get back enough with them paired with Carnac or Sidi. So back to Look.