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Thread: Legitimate Doping

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    ned
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    Default Legitimate Doping

    Easy to forget the origins of our peloton's PEDs. I have one patient on EPO because his body is not producing enough red blood cells. Another uses a testosterone gel to counter the effects of long term pain med use. The former tells me how much more energy he has "since gettin' them shots." The latter could not build any muscle and get stronger with low testosterone levels--a rather counter productive situation from a rehab perspective. No, I am not tempted to raid their medicine cabinets.

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    rabo is offline VSalonistas
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    Default Re: Legitimate Doping

    The problem is that pro racers are banned from taking multiple "legitimate " medications (see Vaughters bee sting) because they may improve performance , or mask other drugs.
    And then the grey area "my hormone levels are out of range , so I need supplementation."
    I would say: Bull! you're 50 years old, you need to get a life.

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    Default Re: Legitimate Doping

    Quote Originally Posted by rabo View Post
    And then the grey area "my hormone levels are out of range , so I need supplementation."
    I would say: Bull! you're 50 years old, you need to get a life.
    I am honestly not sure what you are saying
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    Moke is offline VSalonistas
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    Default Re: Legitimate Doping

    I believe it refers to a lot of 40 plus guys going to aging clinics and getting some hormones/steroids/hgh from the fine doctors there to help with the natural reduction of those substances as a part of the aging process. When you see a guy that could last year barely hang with the peloton and this year is ripping the legs off everyone you may wonder if hitting puberty at 52 is a normal thing, or maybe not. Just my guess.

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    Default Re: Legitimate Doping

    Quote Originally Posted by Moke View Post
    you may wonder if hitting puberty at 52 is a normal thing
    Jumpin' jiminies! I'm 55. I can't imagine a second puberty at my age. Or why one would be desirable. The first one was bad enough.

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    rabo is offline VSalonistas
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    Default Re: Legitimate Doping

    Quote Originally Posted by Moke View Post
    I believe it refers to a lot of 40 plus guys going to aging clinics and getting some hormones/steroids/hgh from the fine doctors there to help with the natural reduction of those substances as a part of the aging process. When you see a guy that could last year barely hang with the peloton and this year is ripping the legs off everyone you may wonder if hitting puberty at 52 is a normal thing, or maybe not. Just my guess.
    You said it better than I did. Thanks.

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    ned
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    Default Re: Legitimate Doping

    Whoa! Maybe I left out some details. I helped the 80-something year old guy getting the EPO walk 500 feet--the farthest he'd gone in months. The guy using testosterone had a spinal fusion 5 years ago, has been on such massive doses of pain meds that he couldn't drive himself anywhere, and has just had an implanted morephine pump. These guys are NOT racing bikes! Sorry to confuse.

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    rabo is offline VSalonistas
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    Default Re: Legitimate Doping

    Quote Originally Posted by ned View Post
    Whoa! Maybe I left out some details. I helped the 80-something year old guy getting the EPO walk 500 feet--the farthest he'd gone in months. The guy using testosterone had a spinal fusion 5 years ago, has been on such massive doses of pain meds that he couldn't drive himself anywhere, and has just had an implanted morephine pump. These guys are NOT racing bikes! Sorry to confuse.
    I kind of got that. But thread drifts are more fun than 80 y/o on morephine pumps. Especially when dope is involved.

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    ned
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    Default Re: Legitimate Doping

    Point taken.

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    Default Re: Legitimate Doping

    I work in a medical scene and there are more than a few MDs taking EPO for skiing weekends, trips to Machu Picchu, vacation in Colorado and doing the tour de alps than I would like to admit. Top fuel has to be a good thing for weekend warriors or they would not do it. I see the masters get ripped where they were not a couple months ago and say hmmm? Lance had nothin on these guys and they don't get tested.

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    Tom Officer is offline VSalonistas
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    Default Re: Legitimate Doping

    Not pointing fingers here, but it sure seems like everytime you guys get going on the PED stuff, there are more than a few comments about ripped masters and being juiced to the gills. It's really getting old and bothers me as I suppose I could be called a "ripped" old guy. I'm not naive and realize there are a few old guys out there doping, but there are an awful lot of us that simply like being fit and racing provides a means to do that. It's my only motivation to race, to stay very fit. I can't do it without the incentive that racing provides. It's unfortunate that folks seem to throw all really good or "ripped" masters into this doper pool. I just ignore the noise, the rest of you should do the same.

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    Default Re: Legitimate Doping

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Officer View Post
    Not pointing fingers here, but it sure seems like everytime you guys get going on the PED stuff, there are more than a few comments about ripped masters and being juiced to the gills. It's really getting old and bothers me as I suppose I could be called a "ripped" old guy. I'm not naive and realize there are a few old guys out there doping, but there are an awful lot of us that simply like being fit and racing provides a means to do that. It's my only motivation to race, to stay very fit. I can't do it without the incentive that racing provides. It's unfortunate that folks seem to throw all really good or "ripped" masters into this doper pool. I just ignore the noise, the rest of you should do the same.
    Agreed. While I'm sure it's out there and not particularly uncommon, I think a lot of these stories are apocryphal.

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    Default Re: Legitimate Doping

    Quote Originally Posted by Moke View Post
    I believe it refers to a lot of 40 plus guys going to aging clinics and getting some hormones/steroids/hgh from the fine doctors there to help with the natural reduction of those substances as a part of the aging process. When you see a guy that could last year barely hang with the peloton and this year is ripping the legs off everyone you may wonder if hitting puberty at 52 is a normal thing, or maybe not. Just my guess.
    Here's a relevant read: The Doper Next Door: My Strange and Scandalous Year on Performance-Enhancing Drugs: Andrew Tilin: 9781582437156: Amazon.com: Books
    GO!

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    robin3mj is offline VSalonistas
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    Default Re: Legitimate Doping

    That guy wrote a similar article for Outside magazine, and subsequent reader letters shredded him pretty good. I can imagine it served more as a road map for PED-curious athletes than as any kind of deterrent.

    ATMO, the anti-aging field is about to hit its boom years as many wealthier boomers retire and find themselves with time on their hands, not enjoying the fact that they are 20/30/40 years slower than the last time they really had time to exercise. I think we're going to hear more and more about this, rather than a handful of possibly apocryphal stories. These folks watching their parents (The Greatest Generation) live longer but with more difficulty and less dignity than their grandparents also informs a lot of these decisions.
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    Chance Legstrong's Avatar
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    Default Re: Legitimate Doping

    Since a recent birthday catapulted me into the infamous Master's category last month, and have dipped my toe into the Master's peloton a few times this past season.
    I have my eyes wide open to what is occurring and what can occur.
    It is unfortunate that some decide to bend and massage the "rules" to enhance not only their lives off the bike but also enjoy the side effects while in the saddle.
    Since my comeback to racing 7 years ago i have trained mostly with Masters and can tell you that due to life obligations and a larger discretionary income pool, these guys train (and are trained) smarter with their focus more on quality not quantity when it comes to both it and racing.

    Ned brings up the ugly fact that these legitimate pharmaceuticals have important uses in the daily lives of those whose health is suffering. How ironic that "we" use them as perfectly healthy individuals to inflict "pain" on others.

    Fuck dopers.
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    Default Re: Legitimate Doping

    Quote Originally Posted by robin3mj View Post
    That guy wrote a similar article for Outside magazine, and subsequent reader letters shredded him pretty good. I can imagine it served more as a road map for PED-curious athletes than as any kind of deterrent.
    He's a good friend of good friends (who gave me the book.) It's not a great book but does have some interesting insights into the experience and the whole anti-aging "medical" subculture. And, btw, he turned himself in and accepted his punishment, which was his plan.
    GO!

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    Default Re: Legitimate Doping

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Officer View Post
    Not pointing fingers here, but it sure seems like everytime you guys get going on the PED stuff, there are more than a few comments about ripped masters and being juiced to the gills. It's really getting old and bothers me as I suppose I could be called a "ripped" old guy. I'm not naive and realize there are a few old guys out there doping, but there are an awful lot of us that simply like being fit and racing provides a means to do that. It's my only motivation to race, to stay very fit. I can't do it without the incentive that racing provides. It's unfortunate that folks seem to throw all really good or "ripped" masters into this doper pool. I just ignore the noise, the rest of you should do the same.
    A few bad apples is an apt metaphor here. It sucks to get lumped into a category by the actions of a few, but I hope you are more bothered by the age-group assholes who do dope. Testing has proven it happens, but I really don't get the sense folks are throwing every good masters racer into the doper pool. One sad result of Tyler's book and the Lance affidavits is going to be a huge increase in amateur doping. I'd bet my net worth on it. Tyler's book is a how-to for the PEDcurious.

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    Default Re: Legitimate Doping

    For the truly curious, find a compliant physician and starting filing some TUE. When they decline the TUE for test the first time around, threaten to sue then they'll comply.

    (good luck, have fun)

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    Default Re: Legitimate Doping

    Speaking of 'legit' doping, this should piss some people off:

    Opinion: It's time to allow doping in sport - CNN.com

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    Default Re: Legitimate Doping

    Quote Originally Posted by Chance Legstrong View Post
    It is unfortunate that some decide to bend and massage the "rules" to enhance not only their lives off the bike but also enjoy the side effects while in the saddle.
    "snip"

    Ned brings up the ugly fact that these legitimate pharmaceuticals have important uses in the daily lives of those whose health is suffering. How ironic that "we" use them as perfectly healthy individuals to inflict "pain" on others.

    Fuck dopers.
    Interesting. I think most would agree that violating the rules of the sport in which you participate is shitty and not to be countenanced.

    However, use outside of athletic endeavors seems a different matter altogether. If the quality of a person's life can be improved by taking a legally prescribed and affordable medication, is there some sort of moral stricture that says they shouldn't? Does that apply to aspirin as well as EPO and testosterone?

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